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Description

The higher you rise, the harder you fall. In part 2 of our Chrissy Teigen deep dive, hosts Kiki Monique, Mohanad Elshieky, and Hoja Lopez chronicle the downfall of Chrissy: from her feud with chef Alison Roman, to beefing with QAnon conspiracy theorists, to the Courtney Stodden cyberbullying scandal. They unpack Chrissy’s numerous, lengthy apologies, and answer once and for all: Is Chrissy Teigen canceled?

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Hoja Lopez, Mohanad Elshieky, Kiki Monique

Kiki Monique  00:14

I’m Kiki Monique. And this is I’M SORRY, a podcast about apologies. And this week I think I’ve been convinced to try a blueberry bagel.

Mohanad Elshieky

Oh, that’s amazing. This is Mohammed Elshieky, and I am 6’7 this week.

Kiki Monique 

Wow, Mohamed, and my name is Hoja Lopez. And I cannot wait to go home and listen to St. Vincent tonight.

Kiki Monique 

And you have a very sexy voice today.

Kiki Monique 

I’m recovering from an endless, endless vocal problem. which honestly, for a person who loves to talk a lot, torture.

Kiki Monique

I love it. I love it. You know what else I love is talking about Chrissy Teigen. I can’t stop. I can’t stop talking about her. And then you know, admit it, like love her or hate her. She is fascinating, right? Like she is this exemplification of like, the higher you rise, the harder you fall. I mean, she had basically become her own personal Empire. And so of course, I started Googling empires thinking about, you know, the rise and fall of Chrissy. And the first thing that popped up was this line that said, All empires think they’re special. But all empires eventually come to an end. And I thought it was so fitting for Chrissy, right?

Mohanad Elshieky 

I mean, that sounds very smart. I wish I said it.

Kiki Monique

I wish I had said it too.

Hoja Lopez 

Honestly out of context. I would have thought like, oh god, it’s about America. And isn’t Chrissy isn’t Chrissy America isn’t that she just represent everything. Good and bad. And what we love and hate about this place?

Mohanad Elshieky 

Wow, this podcast, we have apologies and metaphors. And we have everything.

Kiki Monique  02:06

So it seemed like it was only a matter of time obviously. Before she had a downfall because you know, these Golden Ages only last but so long.

Mohanad Elshieky

Absolutely. I think what really what really, like, took her down, I wouldn’t even say took her down. But like, suddenly that backlash is the pandemic is like, you had so many people who were bored at home doing nothing. And also, you know, like people lost their jobs and like people going, like people are really going through it. And then you have someone tweet something like, hey, has anyone ever spent so much money on something like they did not know, was worth that much. For example, $13,000 for a bottle of wine, and everyone was just like, okay, we don’t like this. We don’t like you anymore.

Kiki Monique

I’m surprised there was such backlash about that particular tweet like yes, okay. No, none of us have ever gone into a restaurant and accidentally ordered a $13,000 bottle of wine, however, there’s a reason I watch Real Housewives. Right? It’s not because I want to see them in a one-bedroom studio with a cat hair covered couch. I want to see fabulousness. And that’s the same reason I was you know I follow Chrissy.

Kiki Monique 

I think this is really fun. Because I do think that we talk about relatability as this like, like, if you don’t have it is a currency of this way of like, Can people identify with you? And I don’t know if celebrities can always ride that wave like you sometimes you have to be one or the other. And I think Chrissy is somebody who presents like a relatability. And so when that cracks and when we see kind of like what she actually is, which is, you know, like a coastal elite. You know, I love that term. By the way, coastal elites is my new favorite two words put together of 2020 and 2021. But I do think that you start to, like when we get a glimpse into the fact that she actually does kind of live that way. I think people get pissed off. But I do wonder, you know, if the pandemic what you were saying Mohanad is really what galvanized that because the whole Alice Roman thing happened, like May of 2020, which is right, as the pandemic actually like, hits, and we’re all stuck in our houses. So we just had a lot of time to pay attention to these people.

Mohanad Elshieky  04:21

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t have cared about any of this. Like if it wasn’t for the pandemic, I was literally just, I was discovering new people to be upset about because I had nothing else going on, I was like, I’m gonna read all about you tonight, just so I can justify how upset I am at you.

Kiki Monique

Well, yeah, and if we look at this, you know, Chrissy Teigen through this, like anthropological lens, right. There’s two events that I think set her downfall in motion, the first being the Alison Roman saga, and then the second being the Courtney Stodden. Sort of backlash. And so and it’s funny that you say that because Alison Roman, I had no idea who she was before any of this drama. And somehow I came to hate this woman based solely on the fact that Chrissy who is you know, now titled The clap back queen has made it so.

Mohanad Elshieky 

So well, what was the Alison Roman’s stuff? Can you?

Kiki Monique

So you know, basically, Alison, you know, she is a New York Times columnist, and I think she’s written some cookbooks. And you know, I think she’s really popular with home chefs who want to make these really fancy dishes, but in easy, approachable ways. Like that’s my understanding of who Alison Roman is.

Kiki Monique

Yeah, she’s like the modest mouse of cooking. She’s like, you know, like, young indie kids are like, wow, I can make a Carmelite Charlotte pasta, from what I have in my house. She’s just a very, I’ll be honest, just easy listening. You know what I mean?

Kiki Monique  06:06

Yeah, that’s what it sounds like. And so she had gone to do this is the funniest part of it. She had gone to just do this really softball interview with something called new consumer, which I don’t know if anyone has ever heard of. And it was really just to like, talk about this a collab she was doing for these limited-edition vintage spoons. And it was really just to promote this spoon line, right? And so while she’s promoting these clearly, very necessary spoons, she starts criticizing Marie Kondo, who, you know, that’s like, get rid of it. If it doesn’t make you happy that you know, that woman and Chrissy for being sellouts, because they leverage their popularity, to sell goods, which is yeah, very ironic,

Kiki Monique

by the way, unprompted, like nobody like brought them into the conversation. She done drag those women from the nothingness of that interview into the interview. So just a heads up.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Yeah, I think it was one of those things where you like, you think no one was gonna like read or listen to the interview.

Kiki Monique

So you know, so she basically is criticizing them and then like the worst part of the interview, I think the part that really stood out to people is at one point she seemed to mock Marie’s accent now, she later denied that and the interview said, you know, that didn’t happen, but the way she sort of positioned the words, it sounded like she was mocking her Asian accent and I think the interviewer then even later got cut out of the article because when people try to find it later it wasn’t there and they were like you’re trying to cover it up. So there was this backlash of you know, why are you putting down these women? Why are you putting down these women of color especially when you know in this lifestyle field so many white so many white women so many white men do the same thing use fame to you know, sell products and you’re not calling them out? And so Chrissy decides to you know, go on this series of tweets tweeting at Alison basically disappointed in her you know, like I followed your recipes I followed you for years, I was a part of the executive producing team that was, she was that cast producing cooking show and Chrissy was part of the producing team for that.

Kiki Monique  08:30

I didn’t even know that

Kiki Monique 

Yeah. And basically it was like, you know, I guess we should unfollow each other now. Which of course then all of a sudden now Alison is feeling the heat now she’s pissed off Chrissy and nobody wants to be on Chrissy’s bad side.

Mohanad Elshieky 

It’s so wild because like I see a lot of like, articles and stuff like that where they’re like, so and so I’m following each other and that’s how you know they like broke up or like, not friends anymore. I just, I don’t think I really think about that when I have an argument with anyone I’m like, Well guess what, it’s time to unfollow.

Kiki Monique

I’ll be honest, I unfollow people for no reason at all. I’m like, you know what? I’m tired of seeing your face. I’m following my best friend because for like and I still loved her. We were in no fight whatsoever. I was like, I just can’t look at you right now. I’ll just unfollow send a message and follow them back up or mute them a couple months later. So I will take a step back if I need to. So go Alison.

Mohanad Elshieky

Can’t believe that now I have to wake up every morning and go look through my followers to see if you’re there or not.

Kiki Monique

I know right? Like if I see Hoja has unfollowed. I will be like what did I do but maybe nothing? Maybe she just didn’t like what I was talking about that day.

Mohanad Elshieky 

It can be nothing or everything. So thank you for a new thing to be anxious about, Hoja.

Kiki Monique

Yes, thank you. So you know, Chrissy does this like sort of four-part tweet to her, Alison, you know, responds and then Alison comes back with a more lengthy response that she had she spent the weekend really, you know, writing down all of her thoughts. Now mind you, again, this is in May, this is May 11 of 2020. So this is prior to the huge summer, you know, social justice movement that’s coming, right, like that happened, basically, may 31. So what I will say I’m very impressed by in Alison’s response is her use of these words that I didn’t see a lot of white women using to like after blackout day, you know, this, like, understanding of privilege, and you know, her insecurities and you know, putting down, you know, [..], and just like, she used a lot of language that I thought was she had, basically, she had a really good team that was like, had sensitivity training, and knew the word she should use, which again, I’m just impressed by based on the dates because most people I feel like didn’t start using those words until a few weeks later.

Kiki Monique  10:57

I remember something about I think she said something about that being blind to racial and sensitivities was a discriminatory luxury. I remember getting stuck on that line, specifically, because it is I mean, it makes perfect sense. But it is a nice little mouthful of words. That definitely, I think, hit the core of what a lot of people were talking about.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Yeah, I mean, I personally think is a great apology, because like, she basically what she done is like, she acknowledged what she did, she did not send to herself, she sent to the other people that she like, came after, and then even explained how she’s like gonna get better. Because like, a lot of people were just like, I will do better, like going forward. And like, what does that mean? Like, give me like, something actionable. So for me, I thought it was a great apology, even though I’ve read some of the replies under it. And some people were not impressed. Because I guess like, some people are not impressed by anything. You’re like, oh, so now this is like hurting your pocket and money. You’re apologizing? First of all. Yes, of course. Like, yeah, I want to protect my job. So what?

Kiki Monique  12:07

Also, all humans it’s very rare, the human who can just like magically go, like, oh, I’ve made a mistake. And I must then contend with it. Usually you need pressure. And whether or not that pressure is from like somebody that you love telling you that they’re disappointed or you losing something that was important to you, whether it’s somebody’s trust, or, you know, I don’t know, the ability to have a column in the New York Times. I do think that that is how all humans come to some kind of understanding with a new person is there’s consequences. And when you feel them, that’s when you do something about it. So yeah, I also agree whenever I see that on a comment, I’m like, bro, that is the thing. You’re literally complaining about the process that we’re putting this person through, basically?

Mohanad Elshieky 

Exactly. Absolutely. Yeah.

Kiki Monique

I mean, I will say I’m disappointed in myself, because I didn’t take the time when she issued this apology to really read her apology, because again, I didn’t know her. I just knew time to hate on her. And that’s what I did, right. And if I had really taken the time, in that moment to read her apology, I was like, this is one of the most sincere apologies. I’ve seen, in all the apologies I’ve seen over the last, you know, several years. So I thought that was awesome, actually. And then Chrissy does sort of re-respond to Allison’s apology. And sort of just kind of being like, I understand, like, I’m glad you understand. And like you, I just want you to know, it’s hard out there. That’s kind of the sentiment I’m getting. But the one thing that really stood out because it was really foreshadowing I felt like is one of the responses said, I often comment about how I wish I could get away with what I used to now, but the truth is, I don’t. I’ve learned a fuck ton from my years being watched and read and I can really say it makes you a better person. And makes you think about the impact of what you say who it might hurt. Oh, my God. I mean, literally, she’s saying this as like, the Courtney Stodded thing is rearing its ugly head and she doesn’t even realize it.

Mohanad Elshieky  14:21

I think it’s also like, sometimes like the stuff I feel like is subconscious. Like, you know, in the back of your brain, there is something and this is you defending your future self as well.

Kiki Monique

I will say that whole thing I wish I could get away with what I used to get away with, like, Oh, that’s gnarly, you guys, like I am questioning I was like, What does that mean to her? Like, does she kind of want to be nasty and she wants to say, what she wants to say without you know, getting canceled, maybe a little. But I will say I mean; you have friends you have close friends. Of course you do because you’re great popular hot people. But what I’m saying is I mean I talk shit you guys. Like, I go to my circle of trust, I talk so much shit. I say nasty, stupid things. And then I go back with my pristine face in public. And I talk shit about all sorts of things. And part of me is like, you know what, I think everybody’s on a journey. And then the other part of me is like, oh, they’re doing that wrong, you know, and those two things are constantly fighting each other.

Mohanad Elshieky

But that’s what group chats are for them to talk my shit, like, I do talk about a shit to like, like, I would say, 90% of my time, I really spent like, that’s what I enjoy the most. It’s a hobby at this point. But the thing is, like when you take it to public and you’re like, actually like making sure that people this is about seeing that like, I don’t want to hurt these people or their feelings. That’s why I’m doing it where they never see it.

Kiki Monique 

But I think talking shit is also like processing kind of and like going through all of your like worst, most basic thoughts before then you go and say something online that you can stand by, you know, that is like more aligned with like your values or like the person that you wish you were the person that you want to be. Yeah, and I kind of sounds like Chrissy wants to not have to worry about those values as much. It looks like Chrissy wants to just talk shit when she wants to talk shit. But that is something that we get that celebrities don’t get.

Mohanad Elshieky  16:29

A group chat.

Kiki Monique 

Once this Alison Roman thing happens, you know, she has to actually go private for like the first time because it does start bringing out a lot of like, the super haters and the trolls. Yeah. And like the crazy qanon people and like she kind of has to go private because people are attacking her.

Kiki Monique 

And then well, Marie Kondo is like, in a corner of dead silent like, why she’s like, I have no comment.

Kiki Monique

No comment at all. So she goes private. And then this is around the time that she has to, you know, delete all of these tweets because she has been saying a lot of insane things. And people are now pulling them out. And a lot of them are like, making her look super creepy. And some of them are just like, you said, what? And so she really has to start protecting herself in this moment.

Kiki Monique 

I think at this point, too. She’s like doing all this Trump stuff, right and talking all this shit to Trump. So I’m guessing she’s getting some proud boy action, a little bit of trolling Qanon on action, she’s getting some. Our country’s foremost crazies, basically, our top notch Yeah,

Kiki Monique  18:12

Yeah, the best and worst thing that happened to her was like becoming public enemy number one to Trump because like, I don’t know we look at it as like yes, he hates you awesome. Yeah, people who really love him are like no and they’re going to attack which is pretty much what they did.

Mohanad Elshieky 

I think it’s an it’s a weird choice to go private when you have like 13 million followers. This is like leaving the door open and you just like put a chair in front of it and like no one walks in, like yeah, I can, Yeah, well, okay. I also to your point about the Qanon people and all of that I think they really make it so hard to talk shit about people or to hate people because they ruin everything. Because they will have to bring their conspiracy theories stilted like if someone does not like Chrissy is because some of her tweets or stuff she said, and then they come in and then they’re like, Yeah, she flew with Jeffrey Epstein and like, well, I don’t know about that. Yeah, that’s a huge thing. Yeah, don’t get me into this. Absolutely.

Kiki Monique 

again, be on your team. No,

Mohanad Elshieky 

And you sound like saying like a lot of racist definitely. We’re not on the same page here. We’re like, really talking really mild stuff. And you’re just doing hate speech.

Kiki Monique 

I just imagine like a crew of like you at the forefront going like Chrissy you kind of suck and like, I don’t like you today, you’re doing a bad job. And behind you. There’s a bunch of guys that are like, kill her, kill her, and you’re like, no, no, I’m not with these guys. I got my, I got my own. We’re doing something different.

Kiki Monique

So yeah, so she starts getting a lot of hate. She has to like, you know, delete 60,000 tweets. She has to block over a million Twitter accounts, which, you know, I guess there’s just some app that does that. I don’t know. But then, you know, she ends up losing the pregnancy, she was pregnant. And she posted a picture of her in the hospital. And the world sort of like mourns for her right? Yeah, I feel like we all are back on Chrissy’s side at this point because she was really vulnerable in that moment. You know, like she has lost this pregnancy she is, you know, sharing it with the world. Some people are also saying that she’s oversharing. But again, this is Christy’s trademark is like being relatable like she wants if she has to tell a story that even touches one person, I do think that that is important to her. And so I think that we all rally around her once again, and I think she’s like, in a better place.

Kiki Monique  20:45

I definitely. Like when I was hearing about the stuff that she was putting out on the miscarriage, I was like, This feels like an important thing for people to hear. And I feel like women’s issues, a lot of times get sort of like thrown in the TMI area, when in fact, they’re like pretty common and things that people should probably be talking more about. So, you know, when I saw that it was happening. I mean, I was like, okay, this is the focus like this is Chrissy’s like maybe for me, it was like this is her next evolution. And she’s going to have like a platform for specific things. And these are things that she’s going to talk about versus kind of exclusively being clap back queen. I was like, she’s going to move more into this sort of like, advocacy activism, which I feel like a lot of people are doing so. But yeah, I kind of didn’t quite put that way.

Kiki Monique 

No, it didn’t really go that way. Because, you know, Courtney Stodden was kind of like, hmm, I’m still not feeling you. Yeah, you know, and just some clarification for people who may not know Courtney did come out as non-binary. So they in them are their pronouns and that’s how we will be referring to them. But Courtney basically comes out and calls Chrissy a hypocrite because Chrissy has to she decides to leave Twitter once again. She’s like, Yeah, all of this is too much for me. I have to say goodbye. This. It’s you know, this no longer serves me positively. It serves me negatively. My life goal is to make people happy and she has to leave. And Courtney ends up tweeting. Chrissy Teigen is leaving Twitter it’s too negative for her hashtag Chrissy Teigen and hashtag bully. And so Courtney ends up going and doing an interview where they said that Chrissy not only in this was during in 2011 and 2012 when Courtney was 16 years old. Now mind you, Courtney was 16 years old. They had married a 50-year-old man. And they said that Chrissy would publicly attack them on Twitter, and also privately dm them, telling them to kill themselves.

Mohanad Elshieky 

What a very normal thing to do and say to someone, especially like a teen at that point, like how old was she, like at 16?

Kiki Monique 

Courtney was 16 and Chrissy was 26 at this time.

Mohanad Elshieky 

That’s pretty wild. Like you should know what you’re doing when you’re 26 years old. And I don’t think it’s acceptable at any age to tell anyone to kill themselves. I feel like that’s very, very extreme. Like you should. I don’t know.

Kiki Monique

Yeah, a lot of the tweets were, you know, the tweets that we saw were like my Friday fantasy, you dirt that baby so she was even playful about the way she wanted her to offer herself which was also super creepy.

Kiki Monique 

I really wonder what the deal is with people telling people to go kill themselves. Like I wonder what that like, specifically that idea, like provides in terms of control or power over somebody else because you can tell somebody that they’re a fat bitch You can tell them that their bangs suck like you can I’m sorry, those are all about me by the way, but know what I’m saying is like, I wonder what specifically It is about the kill yourself part that feels like so much control for the person who’s actually telling the other person to do that. I don’t know if there’s a worst troll level like I can’t think of literally anything worse to say to somebody than that.

Kiki Monique  24:31

See, for me, it’s like the way it said because I’d be lying if I said that. I haven’t had road rage and roll down my window and told someone to fuck off and die. I have absolutely said that to someone but to me, it’s how it’s said. He may be like semantics, but like I do like I know I’ve said that to someone. Not in the way of like actually kill yourself. It was just a way of cussing someone out. Yeah, but the way she did it was not in that manner at all.

Mohanad Elshieky

Absolutely. Also like to tell it to someone who is 16. And this is someone who like, clearly needs help, and is young. And, if someone, like, who’s extremely famous comes to you as like a child, basically, it was like, kill yourself. There’s a high chance that person would actually do it. So maybe you shouldn’t be saying like, the context matters.

Kiki Monique 

Yeah, I just don’t think I mean, I know personally, I didn’t see Courtney, as a victim at the time. They were famous. And so I know, probably a lot of people who were commenting, even Chrissy Teigen, they were just another media sensation that we got to make fun of I mean, if you go back and look at some of the articles, some of the videos, you know, she went on the Dr. Drew show, and to prove they didn’t have breast implants. Dr. Drew is giving them a breast exam on live television. A 17-year-old girl, sorry. Okay, I’m gonna apologize to Courtney right now, because I am not meaning to miss gender. You. I am just a human. And I am getting better every day. I apologize. I’m saying that I’m sorry. Right now.

Kiki Monique  26:25

First apology. We all owe it. I think we’ve all done it. Oh, god, it’s so crazy. Because I you know, a lot of times when people say like, things are the worst that they’ve ever been, I’m like, well, it was worse then, it was worse then and it’s better now. And I do think we just didn’t have the like, it wasn’t in the site, guys, me to hadn’t happened, George Floyd have an app, there’s all these things that have to like galvanize public thoughts so that we all we all are aware of the shit that’s happening. And with Courtney, in particular, I mean, I remember, she came out not too long, at some point at the beginning of 2020. And basically saying, like, they were groomed to be a child bride that. And now California specifically has a law that says minors cannot marry it doesn’t matter who approves it, or who doesn’t approve it, if you’re under 18. You just can’t do it. And so I do think that there’s so many different factors into play coming here, which is, I didn’t know what the word grooming was in 2011, I had no idea what that meant. I had no idea that there was like a media cycle that basically like chewed women up and spit them out, and that I was a part of it.

Hoja Lopez 

I mean, I think at that point, I was probably still slut shaming other people and myself. So I guarantee you at that point in 2011, I thought Courtney Stodden was like a gross like attention whore and that’s probably the word that I would have used at that point in my life. And I don’t think I had the foresight to really understand that there was anything strange going on. And so I think Chrissy feels like super emboldened I think at this point by that structure, like what she’s saying, is not coming in a vacuum, it’s coming in, through like, kind of what everybody else is sort of saying, but you’re an edge Lord, you’re gonna say what they’re saying, to the fullest extent, and you’re gonna say it publicly.

Kiki Monique  28:30

So she issues, you know, this four part, I guess, statement apology on Twitter. Again, her apologies are very long winded. But when something you know, this is a big deal, and I feel like when something is this big a deal, you meet with your team and make sure you know, all your i’s and are dotted and your T’s are crossed. And one of the major T’s that needed to be crossed was she needed to make sure she unblocked Courtney at this point, because, you know, she says, you know, I’ve tried to connect with Courtney privately. But I also want to publicly apologize to which Courtney then has to respond. Well, I actually haven’t been reached out in private by anyone in our camp. But also, if you know, you want me to see this, maybe unblock me because I there’s How am I supposed to see this apology if you have me blocked? You know, I’m sure she didn’t realize it. But she should have at least just taken the time to do that.

Kiki Monique 

Somebody is lying. Like that’s what’s happening.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Exactly. That was a lie.

Kiki Monique 

There is a lie happening. And we I mean; we don’t have to be the make the judgment call because who the hell are we to make the judgment call? But let’s make a judgment call. Like, what do you guys think like do you think that Chrissy did reach out to Courtney, do you think that Chrissy did not?

Mohanad Elshieky

I don’t think she did really. I mean, I feel like it’s one of those things because like, even if you know you made a mistake. You’re like, what if I reached out? Well, that started the whole thing, because now there will be screenshots. There’s no evidence of me acknowledging that I’ve done something wrong. Because sometimes that’s part of you. And I feel like that’s everyone like it, like including myself, like you do something bad. And you’re like, maybe if I just don’t talk about it, it will disappear. And sometimes it is big. Sometimes it’s small. So you never, you never know.

Kiki Monique  30:29

Like an edible arrangement and she just never got it.

Mohanad Elshieky 

True. I got it by mistake. So it was good.

Kiki Monique 

So, you know, Chrissy issues this apology. Courtney kind of says like, Okay, great. I accept it. But like, I don’t feel like Courtney is really feeling it. But that doesn’t really stop the bleed because Chrissy, the cookware line is pulled from Macy’s. She had just started this like; I think cleaning supply line with Kris Jenner. She has to like step away from that. She like leaves a voiceover role for a Netflix show she was doing with Mindy Kaling. And so she’s still losing all of the partnership. So I think she maybe thought the apology would save some of that. But no, I mean, it’s kind of gone a little bit too far, I think.

Kiki Monique  31:25

Yeah. Which by the way, I watched the Never Have I Ever which is the show that she got booted off of in lieu of Gigi Hadid took over that role. Again, I tell you guys something Chrissy was perfect for that role. Oh, Chrissy was super perfect for that role. I’m sorry, I’m focusing on the wrong thing.

Kiki Monique 

There’s never a wrong thing to focus on. These are all the right things.

Hoja Lopez

You know, as I was watching it, I genuinely like thought to myself, like Chrissy has a true talent, which is like, we love her for being like a version of herself online, you know, and she is somebody that we aspire to be that we can relate to. And so that’s why this like, I was a Chrissy Teigen fan, I was also an Alison Roman fan, so I feel like I keep getting batted down by these extremely talented, shitty women. And then I’m like, maybe I’m an extremely talented shitty woman I can only aspire to be as human idiotic as they have been basically.

Kiki Monique  32:27

As one extremely talented shitty woman I can confirm that you probably too are extremely talented shitty woman.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Yeah, doesn’t relate to me. I’m just a very good person. Yeah, so I mean, I accept you though, both of you.

Kiki Monique

One of the problems I had with like leading the Chrissy charge is it was being led by Candace Owens who is somebody that I just I hate follow a lot of people, the level at which I despise this woman I can’t even hate follow her because it’s like it’s too much and so the fact that she’s the one really pushing to get Chrissy cancelled is making me want to side with Christie even more so I really feel in the middle because I’m like Christie did something wrong, but I don’t want to side It feels like again siding with the Q and on people like when you know they start bringing up all these things. I don’t want to be on your side. I want to be on my own side which is right but it’s not your side.

Kiki Monique 

I’m mad at you for the right reasons, but they’re mad at you for all the wrong reasons. Can I tell you something that makes me feel the same way? My stepdad loves that this happened to Chrissy, he loves that Chrissy, my dad’s, my stepdad is a very nice man but he’s very conservative. And every time I bring up that I’m that we’re talking about Chrissy this smile the cracks on his face you guys, and it pisses me off. I’m like you’re not allowed to talk like that about our Chrissy only we’re allowed to talk like that about our grizzly and I do have a feeling that it’s like, if you love these people, it’s like you feel like you have the right version of justice for them and other people’s version of justice, or what they deserve is the incorrect or it’s too much or it’s not enough.

Mohanad Elshieky  34:22

See, that’s the thing because like, I don’t think I understand sometimes how invested people get into these things like yes, read about them have like a like a full knowledge of the situation or, or whatever. But like, can you someone like Yes, let’s go and cancel Christy Teigen and it’s just like, no, like someone like me if I don’t like Chrissy’s content, or I don’t want to see her on my screen. I’ll either unfollow or block her and I don’t have to deal with anything she says again, it’s that simple. And I do that with everyone. But for some people they’re like No, I will not rest until this person is gone. Like I don’t really care that much I have myself to focus on.

Kiki Monique

like the fervor of Liam Neeson trying to recover like a woman in his life.

Kiki Monique 

So, look, we’re at the downfall of Chrissy, Chrissy has pretty much hit rock bottom, I think in a sense where she is now. She has been posting, you know, kind of random things here and there. And then, you know, she went on to post about wanting to like organize this cancel club because she’s sitting at home alone and kind of not knowing what to do with herself.

Kiki Monique 

Who’s the president, who’s the VP, I call treasurer, Kathy Griffin. That’s who I’ve just selected as the treasurer. I don’t know why she seems like she’d be good with money.

Kiki Monique  36:08

You know, Hoja, I think in part when you had mentioned this quote, that really was also foreshadowing of like, Krissy feeling like she knew the canceling was coming.

Kiki Monique

It’s really good that you bring that up. What she said was, it’s almost like, the more things you do, the closer you’re getting canceled, and it’s so scary to me to have the world turn on you and hate you. This is her worst nightmare is the worst thing that can possibly happen to her. Yes, she has money. Yes, she has a beautiful family life and she’s successful. But this is the thing, you know, feeling ostracized when so much of your value was coming from the way that other people look at you. And not to mention to that, I think we’ve established that Chrissy is like, obsessed, she can’t get away from social media. This is her like, this is where she gets her value. And that is her job. And the fact that she’s fallen so far. And then obviously, she is truly going crazy on. Like, it’s very soft ways. But you can tell that she’s like going through it, you know?

Mohanad Elshieky

Yeah, no, I really think that public shaming is probably the worst thing that can happen to someone, it’s, especially when you feel like, like a large group of people just extremely hate you. And you know, like, as someone who does stand up, I thrive on people liking my stuff and liking me personally. And even if one person like literally just like comments or say something about me, it just lives in my head rent free, forever. Even if there like so many positive things. This is the only thing I would focus on. So to have like, at least let’s say 100,000 people just saying I hate you, you suck. This is bad. And just like over and like also we don’t see her dm’s maybe things are even worse there. So I’d say yes, people like do take it too much. And like no one wants to be hated. Like no one wants to be treated that way no matter what we think they’ve done like unless they’ve done like something like a terrible crime or something where they like actually hurt someone and like, but I mean, like..

Kiki Monique  38:15

Get taken away from society or something like that.

Mohanad Elshieky

Yeah, Lee I’m like, sometimes I think I’m like, okay, what’s the next step? Like what is it that people want to hear? Like, what’s up to me if you like she’s been through enough and that should be it.

Kiki Monique 

I felt so bad for like her like her last IG story. I felt really bad for her because she you know, first she put the little dog filter on because I think she was just feeling sad and wanted to look, she has this little dog filter on.

Kiki Monique 

Been there, done that honey.

Kiki Monique 

And she’s basically like, you know, look like no matter what I do everything I say online, like there’s just people that are attacking me. She’s like, I could go on to a friend’s page who has a really nice outfit, and say you look pretty, and it’s just like a […]

Kiki Monique 

You know, I guess I didn’t realize that people were still spending their time, like attacking every little thing she did. But like you said, Mohamed, like when you have 13 million followers, even if 10% even if 1% of them decide they want to attack you all the time. That’s 1000s of people every day.

Kiki Monique

I wonder what part of like the human brain that attacks in the sense of like, Do you guys know the Maslow’s motivation model, I know this is gonna sound so nerdy but it’s basically like what human beings are motivated by and what he put out a book called motivation and personality and basically what he talks about is like What human beings feel like they need to survive, and like your physiological needs are first. So like food and having a place to poop that isn’t where you sleep, like very specific. Yeah, like things are ways to take care of ourselves, and safety. And our third one, which is the one that’s right above being safe, and being healthy, is belonging and kind of like love needs. And that being ostracized is like in our primitive, like lizard brains, is literally telling us, you’re not gonna make it buddy, like, you’re not gonna get out of this cave, and you’re not going to make it without us. And so I think there’s definitely a part of our brains that is like, particularly inflamed by being disliked or by being generally hated. And that’s not something you can pay your way out of. It’s not something that your close circle of friends can like, talk you out of it out of it not happening, like she is physically feeling the repercussions of what she’s done. But so did Courtney. Yeah, Courtney also felt those things and making space for both of those people is very important.

Mohanad Elshieky  41:06

And not to get too deep. But sometimes I feel like also this. This says a lot about like American culture as well, because it’s not just human beings. I feel like there’s a part of this culture that is very obsessed with punishment, and revenge. And we see that a lot. What do you like, you really want to come after someone until you destroy them? Whether that be like the legal system, or just like even like foreign policy, or just like citizens themselves, like you just, I don’t know, I think there’s like a lot of like, lack of empathy that people don’t realize.

Kiki Monique

And revenge. We’ve even made it like a fun way. I mean, Khloe Kardashian had a show called Revenge Body, which was just focused on people getting hot, so that they can show off to their exes. So like, revenge, and always you’re right, like, we just we think about it.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Yeah. It’s not about like, redemption, or like, how we make something good. Or like how we make that person, like, get better or something. Yeah, like, no, like, I mean, like, you know, like, we’re just like, even the legal system or whatever. Let’s lock someone up and have them disappear. And I don’t care if they get better. I just want to see them punished. And I feel like that on a smaller level. We do that with people as well. We were like, No, no, this is not about you becoming a better person. This is about me seeing you suffer because that makes me feel better.

Kiki Monique  42:27

It’s definitely This is the harder work, I think, to have the conversation and actually figure out whether or not that person is on the path, you know, and I’m glad that I have you guys to talk about it with.

Kiki Monique 

We’re gonna lead you down the wrong path.

Kiki Monique

At the end of this, I’m going to be like, you know what, it’s fine. Do we should banish them from this country? Oh, wait, that’s called deportation that already exists. You can’t do this American citizens. Too bad.

Kiki Monique 

Is Chrissy truly cancelled? Or is she just, you know, taking a break? You know, I did. Like I did a little poll on my I g stories just to see, I wanted to get feel the temperature of what people out there were feeling and I asked them like, you know, do you think Chrissy should be banished forever? Or do you like a redemption story? And overwhelmingly, it was like, 74% of people want to see her comeback.

Mohanad Elshieky

I really don’t think she is canceled. Like, I don’t know if that really, that term really means anything anymore. Because it just has so many definitions. And people just apply it to into like, so many different situations. So it lost its meaning. Plus, I feel like if it I mean, she didn’t do a crime. At the end of the day, like she’s not being punished by the system or like in the legal system or something. She’s still rich, she’s still famous, she still has access to all of these luxuries. And if she chooses to come back or like keep posting or whatever. She has, what 30 million followers, 30 million people are not angry at her. Like, I would say it’s a small percentage of people just like who are like very loud. And they’re like, disdain against her. So it feels like I mean, it’s 30 million even if you have like 10,000 people who are angry at you. That’s a lot of people to you. You feel like everyone is angry at you. I do not like her content that much. I’m just not gonna like I’m not gonna interact with it. It’s so easy. I feel like people should do this. This is not me saying Chrissy is good or bad. I’m just like, if you don’t like it, just unfollow and she’ll be gone. That’s it. It’s so simple.

Kiki Monique  44:51

I think there is a bit of a canceling because while she won’t be canceled, like she’ll be fine. She’ll be rich, she’ll be you know, successful and other ways. Absolutely. But I think what I’m gonna miss is the clap back Queen era is you know, honestly, to me, I always looked at getting clap back by Chrissy almost as like a badge of honor. Like I didn’t really want to get clap back on, but I remember one of my friends you know he said something rude and he just he absolutely deserved her to come at him and she clapped back on him. And I just remember being so I felt like tangentially cooler by being friends with someone who got clapped back on by Chrissy I would show that thread to anyone who would look at it. So I guess I just missed I think that part is canceled I don’t think that part will come back and for that I’m sad because I liked that fun side of her.

Kiki Monique 

She’s not like a carefree young girl in a sun dress anymore. Now she’s like a She’s got some history and some past and we’re gonna have to decide whether or not we’re cool with that and so we’ll brands so we’ll things that she wants to do. So we’ll movie opportunities and I think it’s going to be a long time before we see her kind of come back into a more of like an invited-on Ellen to chit chat kind of stuff. You know what I mean?

Mohanad Elshieky  46:14

To be fair, that show is canceled. And I mean, like I said, like so many people like Chrissy Teigen they like to like her content she does. She does put everything out there like bad or good. And people sometimes, you know, appreciate that. Like they can connect with it. Like when she lost her child and like she posted about it. I’m sure that was like, for a lot of people that was something that you can connect with.

Kiki Monique 

That doesn’t go away. I think you’re right. It’s like yeah, the connection you feel to the people that you care about and why you care about them is that doesn’t go away. Muhammad I’m glad you’ve unfollowed her. I have not yet but maybe I’ll take your advice right now. Just take a break because you know how I will.

Mohanad Elshieky 

Just get a break. Yeah, or just go on Instagram people are nicer there.

 

Hoja Lopez

It’s like an old crowd at a comedy show.

Mohanad Elshieky

Exactly. Exactly. No, Twitter is a hellhole. No one should be there. I am there all the time because I am myself worst enemy.

Hoja Lopez  47:20

Yeah, I will. I love sorting through this with you guys. I feel like I have no more how I feel about it. After talking about it.

Mohanad Elshieky  47:28

This is therapy. This is the only therapy I do.

Hoja Lopez 

One down. You know 6 billion more to go.

Mohanad Elshieky 

It never stops.

CREDITS

I’M SORRY is a Lemonada Media Original. The show is produced by Alex McOwen, supervising producer is Kryssy Pease. Our executive producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Our mix is by Kat and theme music was composed by Xander Singh. If you like this show, please rate and review. And please don’t cancel us. You can find out more about our show at @LemonadaMedia on all social platforms, or follow us on Instagram at @imsorry_podcast. We’ll be back next week and until then be nice, play fair and always say I’m sorry. Thanks for listening!

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