A Marriage Conversation (Part 1)
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Description
Grab a drink and pop some popcorn … it’s the conversation we have all been waiting for! We don’t know how Jaime convinced Michael to join her on mic, but she did. In part one of this two-part special, you’ll hear how they met, what Michael thinks of New Jersey, how their parenting styles differ, and much more. Plus, would Michael change anything about Jaime if he could?
FYI: Tell Me What to Do contains mature language and themes that may not be suitable for all listeners.
Please note, this show is hosted and produced by a team that does not have any clinical or other mental or physical health training. If you are having a health or mental health crisis or emergency, please contact 911. For non-emergency mental health and addiction needs, try https://www.samhsa.gov for national and local resources.
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For additional resources, information, and a transcript of the episode, visit www.lemonadamedia.com/show/tmwtd
Transcription
SPEAKERS
Chris, Michael Sullivan, Jackson, Jaime Primak Sullivan
Jaime Primak Sullivan 00:00
You could have a worm that does the fucking Macarena on the end of your hook. If you go fishing for compliments from Michael Sullivan, you are never going to get them.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I still am amazed that I get up and still like you.
Michael Sullivan
Sucker.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
We’ve gone through some shit, you and I.
Michael Sullivan
To some degree. A lot of degree.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Did you know you liked me that first night?
Michael Sullivan
No clue.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Oh my God fucking cut.
Michael Sullivan
You’re lucky.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Hey guys, it’s Jaime Primak Sullivan you’re listening to TELL ME WHAT TO DO. And this week I have a very special guest. You want it? You got it. Toyota. For those of you who’ve been with me since JERSEY BELLE, then I started CAWFEE TALK. You guys have asked me, begged me, almost bullied me, literally, to having Michael talk to me. In some sort of public forum, which we’re in our son’s room. I don’t know that this is like public but Jackson is here. So technically, there’s someone else here.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Hi, Michael.
Michael Sullivan
Hey.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Guys, we’re gonna work on Michael, the way God works on me. Because Michael likes to give one-word answers. And I’m trying to explain to him that I’m not Oprah and this needs to be a conversation, not an interview. So bear with him as he warms up. He doesn’t really like to talk that much anyway. So this is like a whole thing. Anyway, Michael does not have any social media but every once in a while I can send him things or he can like see things obviously like he reads the news and does all that. Did you see the video of Giuliani speaking at some sort of hearing or thing where he farted?
Michael Sullivan 02:00
I did not, I saw the headline but I didn’t want to.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay. So Giuliani is sitting next to the blonde chick, not the crazy one who looked like the woman from SNL, not the drunk one. Giuliani is sitting next to Jenna Ellis who is Trump’s like, head of his legal team. And he’s yelling at the guy up on the you know, like the committee, you know how they’re raised up in those committee chairs, and Giuliani’s yelling at him and he’s like, and you don’t something. And Jenna goes her face she quickly was like whoo. And it is absolutely not funny that Rudy Giuliani has COVID and it is absolutely not funny that Jenna Ellis got COVID from sitting next to him during his fart capade both of them not wearing a mask, but I want to know from you. Being that you were raised so much more like proper. Right? Like, why are you laughing? That wasn’t a joke.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
But were you not or were you?
Michael Sullivan
I was.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay. What would you do if you were presenting something? And in the middle of your presentation, you just farted.
Michael Sullivan
I wouldn’t have farted.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, I think that’s the first time I heard you farting in our home.
Michael Sullivan
I’ve got more self-control.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, I do think he was farting uncontrollably because of the COVID. Honestly, I’m not being funny. Like I think it really upsets your stomach. Anyway, I’m a 15-year-old boy. I watched the video. Did you it see a Jackson?
Jackson
Absolutely.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Did you laugh?
Jackson
Yes I laughed. I laughed before he even saw it. And then I laughed again.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 04:03
Well, it was funny that people were tweeting it instead of saying thoughts and prayers. They were saying farts in stairs. Lord, it was funny. Well, first of all by the way, Michael made he went to play golf. I know you’re all shocked. Take a minute, collect yourselves.
Michael Sullivan
First time this year.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yeah. Okay. And he made a double Eagle which is also called the apocalypse, right?
Michael Sullivan
Albatross.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Oh albatross, albatross, same thing. Tell people why it was such a big deal. What is an albatross?
Michael Sullivan
It’s a two on par five.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
What’s a par five?
Michael Sullivan
It’s a hole that requires five strokes.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You walk right into that.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So essentially what it means is you’re given or allotted five strokes. For that hole..
Michael Sullivan
For par.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Meaning even?
Michael Sullivan
Correct.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And you made that one hole in two strokes. Why is that cooler than a hole in one?
Michael Sullivan
Well, the odds are higher. It’s just one in 1 million versus 1 in 27,000. Sounds like a lottery ticket.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Right. Sounds like our chances of getting the COVID vaccine, right now. Only we were 90 and lived in England. Are you going to get the vaccine?
Michael Sullivan
Sure.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Me too. It does help that we have a direct line to Dr. David who can tell us which one is like safe. I mean, they’re I think they’re all like, as safe as any vaccine. I got the polio vaccine. I didn’t question that. I got the chickenpox vaccine. No, I didn’t get chickenpox when I was 18 in college. Did you get the chickenpox?
Michael Sullivan
I do.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
How old are you, do you know?
Michael Sullivan
10 or 11?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Did you have it with your brothers?
Michael Sullivan 06:03
With one of them.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
A good one or a bad one?
Michael Sullivan
Just one of them.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay. Did you have the chickenpox
Jackson
I never had the chicken pox.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Did you have the vaccine?
Jackson
Maybe? I don’t know.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Jackson, how am I supposed to follow up with your placebo if I don’t know. So anyway, Michael, thank you for coming on my podcast. Did you really? Do you even really know what my podcast is?
Michael Sullivan
No clue.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Do you know what CAWFEE TALK is?
Michael Sullivan
Somewhat.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
What does that mean?
Michael Sullivan
Well, I know you talk over coffee and your audience typically is or your subject is typically geared towards women.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay.
Michael Sullivan
You let your audience but your subject matter.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Right. Where do I do it?
Michael Sullivan
No clue.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Where can one watch CAWFEE TALK?
Michael Sullivan
Facebook, maybe?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yeah. Have you ever seen CAWFEE TALK?
Michael Sullivan
No, not to my knowledge.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Never in six and a half years? You’ve never seen one CAWFEE TALK?
Michael Sullivan
I’m not on Facebook. How would I access it?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
No one’s ever sent you one and said like, look at the shit your wife is saying?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, all right. I believe you.
Michael Sullivan
Like they send me your tweet.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
They do? Oh, fuck.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
People send you my tweets? Jesus Christmas. Is that real?
Michael Sullivan
Yeah. (laughs)
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Why?
Michael Sullivan
Because it’s funny.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Wait, like, like, like, what kind of tweets?
Michael Sullivan
Well, I don’t recall but..
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Like ones about you or ones that are they feel are inappropriate or ones that are?
Michael Sullivan
Ones I find funny, ones I find inappropriate.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So both are the same. And who are these people? So I can block them.
Michael Sullivan 08:01
People who follow you.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, you must know them if they’re sending them to you. People send you tweets must be people, you know. Okay, well, I’m gonna block them. If I find out who they are. I tell them screenshotting my tweets is a big social media faux pas. We don’t like that.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So for the next two weeks on, TELL ME WHAT TO DO. We’re going to be mixing it up a little instead of telling you what to do. I’m going to be joined as I said, by my one and only and together we will answer all of your questions about our relationship.
Michael Sullivan
The next few weeks?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You’re locked in this room with me for the next few weeks. You’re welcome. No, this episode is going to be broken up into two episodes. Y’all I wish you could have seen his face. He was like I did not sign up for that shit. For those of you who don’t know, if you did not see JERSEY BELLE, or did not read my book, The Southern Education of a Jersey Girl and don’t know how Michael and I met. Michael and I met at a cafe in Birmingham. I was there with a girl that was staying where we were staying. I was working and she invited me to go get a drink. And I had not really been out in Birmingham, like somewhere nice for a drink. And so we go to this place and I look at the menu, the drink menu and it’s expensive. Like I thought God these are jersey prices, like the nerve, you know. And I was young. I was like 26 you know, all legs and hair. And I said I’m not paying for my own drinks. I will stand up and make eye contact with someone and some…
Michael Sullivan
Sucker.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Oh no, well, kinda. Will buy me a drink. And so I did just that and you were Standing at the end of the bar. Did you see me stand up?
Michael Sullivan 10:05
No. I just saw you standing.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay. And what did you think? And be honest?
Michael Sullivan
You look thirsty.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You know what, guys, it’s gonna be like pulling teeth. Well, you decided to send me a drink. Is that something that you typically do? Like when you see it?
Michael Sullivan
No, I was prompted by a friend who was with me.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Really? I didn’t know that. He was the one that told you to send me the drink.
Michael Sullivan
He said I ought to. Because she’s out of my league as well.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well he was right about that. He was self-awareness is a whole other thing he was correct about that.
Michael Sullivan
Typically I didn’t in my single days now.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay. So you decided..
Michael Sullivan
No problems. Just being around the bar.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Meaning what?
Michael Sullivan
Meaning there was enough people to talk to I didn’t need to try to seek someone I didn’t know well.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay. Well, that is true. A lot of people knew you. And a lot of people knew you were single. And you sent me a drink. And then I walked over to say thank you. Do you remember?
Michael Sullivan
I do.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Did you notice my accent?
Michael Sullivan
Possibly, but it’s not something that burn a hole in my head.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Like you don’t remember thinking she’s not Southern?
Michael Sullivan
Well, I could tell by what you were wearing, you were Southern. You didn’t have to open your mouth.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
What was I wearing? A leather jacket?
Michael Sullivan
Yeah, with some white tight jeans and stripper heels.
Michael Sullivan
Babe, I still wear that now.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, um, well, obviously, there was something that you were attracted to.
Michael Sullivan 12:00
Well you were attractive.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So I came over and thanked you for the drink. And then I went back and sat down. And then a few minutes later, you and your friend came over to speak, do you remember?
Michael Sullivan
Tacitly but…
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay. And we just we had a conversation. And you asked me for my number. And I said, No. Because I was seeing someone at the time. So you gave me your card.
Michael Sullivan
I did?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yes.
Michael Sullivan
Pretty smooth.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yeah, it was really smooth. And then most people don’t believe it. But a year later, I was at that same cafe. And who came stumbling in? Did you recognize me?
Michael Sullivan
I wasn’t stumbling.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You were stumbling. Yes, you were. You stumbled in and you stumbled even worse out.
Michael Sullivan
I walked in, sat down at the bar, intending to order dinner, had a few drinks with some people who ran into never got around to dinner, and then decided to leave.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And what happened? I chased you out. Do you remember?
Michael Sullivan
Oh, yeah.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And I didn’t really know you. But I knew I wasn’t gonna let you drink and drive. Do you think that was God? Or do you think that was just me?
Michael Sullivan
It’s got to be a little bow.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, I’ll take that. And then I took you home. And I didn’t know where you lived. So Jenny and I drove around Birmingham for 30 minutes while you were passed out in my car. Yes. And when we finally found out where you lived and dropped you off, you stumbled up the driveway and didn’t even say thank you.
Michael Sullivan
It was 10 blocks. I mean, five blocks up the road.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
We didn’t know where you live. So it didn’t matter if you lived right next door if you don’t know. I’m just driving around with old pass router in my backseat. And then you got my phone number to call me and say thank you. Right?
Michael Sullivan 14:08
I did. I went down to the valet. And she knew, he knew someone who was with you or something.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Right. Did you know you were gonna ask me out?
Michael Sullivan
Well, no, I was just gonna thank you for getting me home. Take you to dinner.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Take me to dinner to say thank you?
Michael Sullivan
Yeah.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Really? Do you remember where you took me on our first date?
Michael Sullivan
Somewhere Italian, but I don’t remember it.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
It was that place where everybody went to have when they wanted to go into labor. Do you remember? It was that Italian place. That was like infamous for its lasagna where all pregnant women when I remember thinking I’m the skinniest woman here because every chick at every table was pregnant. Did you know you liked me that first night?
Michael Sullivan
No. I mean, I wouldn’t. Like I was struck by lightning. Something but which yeah, you were likable and attractive. So I figure it out and pursue it.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Really? And then we went on our second day to Ocean. And we sat in a two top against the wall there, and pretty much close the restaurant down. And on that second date, you told me that any children you would ever have, you would want them to go to Catholic school. And I asked you if you had a child with special needs, would you want if you knew your baby would have special needs in the womb? Would you want the woman you were having children with to go through with the pregnancy. And you said yes, absolutely. And then I said, if you had a son and he was gay, would you throw him out? And you said no. Why? And I was like, “Okay.” I wanted to make sure that..
Michael Sullivan
I wasn’t a southern redneck.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I mean, your words, not mine.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Let me ask you a question. And can you really answer me?
Michael Sullivan
Maybe?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay. How did you know I was the one?
Michael Sullivan
I didn’t for a while.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Right. But then eventually you did. And so I’m asking how did you know?
Michael Sullivan
Well, I figured, you know, we had survived, Birmingham. And we survived the West Coast. And after that, everything fell in place.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So there wasn’t like a you didn’t hit a period of time in our relationship where you thought, My life is really better with this woman in it. Like, I want to spend the rest of my life with her.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
At a certain point. I mean, it was evolving as we went along. Because I had vowed never, never to get married.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I know Jackson’s like, wait, plot twist. Dumb fucking (UNCLEAR) right? I know. But eventually you changed your mind. So why me?
Michael Sullivan
You’re lucky I guess.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Oh, my God fucking cut. Do you remember when we were? Do you remember when we were at Botegga again, it sounds like that’s the only place we go. But we were not there together. I was there with friends and you came in, you were there you came in. And, and it was like a very Sex in the City scene like I was with my friends and you were there with other people or doing your own thing. And it was that whole like, “I’m just gonna go say hi.” Because like when you’re dating someone, but you’re not on a date, it feels weird, because you’re not dating exclusively. So if you go up and say hi, does it look like you’re trying to be possessive in some way?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Or is it just like, he’s my friend kinda I should say hello. So of course, I was like, “I’m gonna go say hi.” And the girls were like, “No, no, he could be with someone.” And I was like, “I’m not gonna pretend I don’t see him. If he’s on a date. He’ll just say, Hi, it’s nice to see you. I’m on a date.” Because we dated very casually for a long time. I saw you once a week for months, and months and months.
Michael Sullivan 18:21
That’s all the time you had.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
No, that was well, a little bit. It was a little bit that but also you didn’t. It’s not like you wanted to see me more than once a week, did you?
Michael Sullivan
We’ll never know, I guess.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
But do you remember me coming up to you and talking to you at Bottega. And that woman walking up and interrupting our conversation? Come on, you know who I’m talking about? You don’t? You and I were talking. It was a very like, not awkward conversation. But kind of like, you could tell he wasn’t expecting to see me. He wasn’t like, unhappy to see me. It was just like, oh, okay, this girl that I’ve been taking out once a week for three months is here. And I was in the middle of talking to him. And this woman walks up with a drink and says, “Are you dating him?” And I was like “What?” And he was watching sports on the TV and holding a drink and never broke eye contact with the TV. It was as if he didn’t see the very tall, angry woman standing directly in front of us. And I was like, “uh.” and she goes because he slept with me and never called me again. Do you remember that?
Michael Sullivan
Not specifically, but it may have happened.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And I was like, “I’m sorry for you.” And she was like, “yeah” and like walked off and I looked at him and he was staring at the TV and then just looked over at me and smirked and I looked back and I was like you are a piece of work, really. But then I kind of liked him more. Not because he didn’t call her back. But it was like, okay, so Michael Sullivan is getting laid, because he wasn’t sleeping with me. We went out for so long. without sleeping together that literally my mom was like, the man is gay. Just let them be gay and celebrate it and let it be. She was like, John Lennon. Turns out you’re not gay, though.
Michael Sullivan 20:33
No.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
No. Okay, so then we dated then we kind of, you know, started to date. Well, no, we still dated really casually. Until I left Birmingham for good and move to LA. Isn’t it just like a man to have me here and not want to date me exclusively? And then wait for me to go all the way across the country to be like, I miss you. What? You’re gonna try to act like you didn’t miss me?
Michael Sullivan
I don’t think I ever said that.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You don’t think you ever said you miss me?
Michael Sullivan
Not in that way.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Maybe not in that voice because your tenor doesn’t get that high. But you missed me.
Yeah, but the reason we weren’t exclusive in Birmingham was because you had six other guys you were seeing. So don’t put it on me.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Excuse me. You had a woman come up and literally tell me that you had just slept with her not called her.
Michael Sullivan
That was a one off one in, you know? 40 years that happened?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Oh my god. You know what? The lies. The lies. Okay. Well, I did have other men I was seeing because you were all any we need to see this relationship through rose colored glasses. I mean, who the fuck says that? What are you Shakespeare?
Michael Sullivan
No, I have said it?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You did say it. So I was like, Okay, then. I’m going.
Michael Sullivan
I was 40 you were 27. You hadn’t experienced life yet.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 22:07
Oh, see, we were just letting me so my oats. I mean, I don’t mean to I’m not trying to downplay your life experience, Michael, but I think I lived more from 15 to probably 25 than you’ve lived in your almost 58 years in life. Remember that one time you did a drug and like almost die? That one time.
Michael Sullivan
So you got to do drugs to live life? Is that the way to you?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, I’m just saying we’ve had, my palette is a bit more expansive than yours.
Michael Sullivan
How do you know it was real? You were on drugs.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
We have so many questions for you. People want to know how I knew you were the one. I knew you were the one. To be honest. When..
Michael Sullivan
I wasn’t gay.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I am.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
No, I knew you were the one I think first of all, you know not to have like dead daddy issues. But you did remind me very much of my father, you had a very calm approach to life. I’m a lot more like my mother. Right? I can be neurotic about things. I tend to fly off the handle. Like I have more of an Italian response to life. Everything is zest with me. It’s all passion and zest in good and bad, right? You know, you don’t have that. You’re very even keeled. You don’t have anxiety; nothing gets you stressed. You always approach any situation like solution oriented, like we will sort this out, you know, and that’s a very (UNCLEAR) thing. My dad was very calm. He had a deep voice like you he never raised it.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 24:05
He was a very passive kind of guy. And like, you just reminded me of him. And there was a security that you brought that the men I was dating. For the 10 years before you they brought chaos. And you brought calm. But more than that, it was like, every day I would wake up and this is a confession. But I do tell you this a lot of times. Every day I would wake up shocked. I still liked you. Like every day I waited to be like, I’m not attracted to him or oh, he’s not for me or that’s out. This is over. You know, first of all, I’m not predominantly attracted to white men. Second of all, you just weren’t really my type. Because you weren’t a scumbag. And we’ve been together now how many years? Like 17 maybe, 15?
Michael Sullivan
Well, I was 40.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
When you’ll be 58 in January. So 14 years, right? Well, Olivia is going to be 13 in January. No, we’ve been together longer than that.
Michael Sullivan
I’ve known you for 17 years.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay. I still am amazed that I get up and still like you. You are the longest held like, healthiest. You’re not surprised I still like you? No? Are you surprised you still like me?
Michael Sullivan
No.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
No? Do you?
Michael Sullivan
Not really. Yes I do.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Really?
Michael Sullivan
Surprisingly, yeah.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
See, that’s what I mean, surprisingly, right? Because 17-year, friendship relationships or whatever, are hard to sustain. And genuinely still, like the person, you know. And I just think I knew you were the one when I would rather be around you, than be around anybody else. And typically, I was running away from all the good guys. And I just wanted to be around you.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Alright, so before we get to the questions, and we have a lot, you guys are excited. We’re gonna take a quick break.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And now we’re back.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So let’s get to it. All right, Michael. listener, question number one. Our first question comes from a listener named Shiraz. She reached out on Facebook and said, “Michael, what attracted you to Jaime, when you met her? And what is it that you love most about her now? And what do you think the best thing is about your relationship?”
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, I think you’ve already said when you met me, you were just attracted to my looks.
Michael Sullivan
Yeah. And then once I got to know, you, you were independent. To some degree, a lot of degree, you know. So I didn’t see you as an anchor.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Right.
Michael Sullivan
And that’s true today. I mean, it’s usually, you have moments of dependence, but by and large, you’re very independent and attractive.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay.
Michael Sullivan
Pretty simple.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Is that what you love most about me?
Michael Sullivan
Maybe not most, but it’s up there. You know, your passion is up there, too. There’s probably two or three things.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay. And what do you think is the best thing about our relationship?
Michael Sullivan
That it works?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Amen.
Michael Sullivan 28:00
A lot of little things.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Right.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Listener, question number two. This next question comes from a listener named Jennifer, who asks, “Both of you, what insecurities Did you have at the beginning of your relationship, both having come out of past relationships? And how do you keep insecurities from creeping in and affecting your relationship today?”
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, I will say I can’t speak for Michael. But I can speak to Michael in that he Michael is the most secure human being I’ve ever met, almost to a fault. He’s just not affected by jealousy in any way. And he’s not insecure about himself. I don’t know if it’s because he’s always been athletic. He’s always been popular. He’s always been attractive. He’s always been in shape. He’s never had to work a debt like sure he exercises and he eats right to try to like, be healthy because he has a family, but he’s never gone through a period of time where insecurity plagued him. I think the things that men are insecure about are intelligence, and he’s very bright, the ability to make money. He’s a wonderful provider, you know, and if I’m being honest penis size, and that’s just not an issue. I mean, you’re laughing, but those are the things that keep men that cause men to act away in a relationship.
Michael Sullivan
Why would they care about that penis size, a man?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, because they don’t want the women they’re with to think they have a small penis.I mean, I don’t know.
Michael Sullivan
How is that an insecurity?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, I’m not a man, but I’m guessing it’s because it’s such a topic around penises. You know what I mean? Like, I guess it’s the same reason that women who have extreme, like very small breasts can feel insecure about that. You know, so..
Michael Sullivan 30:13
They enjoy it. What’s the big deal? Why worry about everyone else?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I think the fear is that if you have a very small penis, the woman you love or like may not enjoy it that much. And I know what you’re thinking, because you’re such a deck, what you’re thinking right now is, well, if I get off, why do I care what she thinks right or wrong? Michael Sullivan? Am I right or wrong? That is what you’re thinking,
Michael Sullivan
You’re right or wrong.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
So he’s just not insecure. So he didn’t really, he didn’t come into this relationship with insecurities so much as he came into this relationship with emotional baggage, some of which we still deal with. You just had emotional baggage coming into this relationship from your past relationships, you brought preconceived notions and issues you had with other women into this relationship, and you projected those concerns or experiences onto me. Right?
Michael Sullivan
True.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And you still do sometimes.
Michael Sullivan
Sometimes.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I didn’t really have insecurities. Once I knew he wanted me, I trusted him enough to know he was the like, that was a decision he was not making lightly. Like, once Michael, wanted to be with me, I knew okay. This is really what he wants in his life. I never really had insecurities. I mean, I did struggle after Max, like two babies back-to-back and 11 and a half months and just being just feeling so uncomfortable in my own skin. Remember, when I cut my hair short?
Michael Sullivan 32:03
I do.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Why did you let me do that?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And I was just so overweight, and so tired. And so and you look the same and you were so dapper and dress so well and so charming. And you were going out and working and like not that you weren’t home for us, you were but like having those two kids didn’t affect you physically at all. And I do remember thinking, there’s no way this man can still be attracted to me. There’s just no way. And then I realized even if you cheated, I didn’t really care who you were, as long as you came home. That was all that mattered. So I don’t know, Jennifer, we don’t really have those kinds of insecurities in our relationship. Do you have any?
Michael Sullivan
I don’t.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
None, right? No, me neither. All right. Well, lucky for us.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Question number three. This next question comes from a listener named Chris, who left us a voicemail. Let’s listen to what she has to say.
Chris
“Hi, Jamie, this is Chris calling from Southern California. So my question for Michael is he seems to be quite laid back and easygoing. But what is the one thing that would push him over the edge with regard to you? Thanks for all you do. Happy Holidays. And I can’t wait to hear Michael’s answer.”
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay, Chris, you know, Michael’s quite laid back. This is true and easy going. But what is the one thing that would push him over the edge in regards to me? So is there anything that I could do or that could happen between us or anything that you would just lose it? Like, come unglued
Michael Sullivan 34:00
Not that I could think of. I mean, yeah, there’s plenty of things that happen in life that alright, well, I wish some something would have changed there. But it’s not.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You don’t really come out of character for anyone, you really don’t. I do. I get crazy when someone hurts me or even with you, when we’ve had issues in our marriage. I you know, I go up here, and you tend to stay right here. I don’t know that I’ve ever really seen you. You know, what was her terminology, “push it over the edge.”
Michael Sullivan
I just don’t see what that accomplishes. You know, if something happened, that, you know, bothered me, I don’t see the benefit of losing my shit and how that resolves anything. So it’s never, It’s never been a path that I’ve taken anything, whether it’s relationship or..
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And we’ve gone through some shit you and I, I mean, there was a time where I wanted to divorce you. I really wanted to divorce you.
Michael Sullivan
Well aware.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And you still didn’t lose your, you never lose your shit, right? Because you knew you were dead ass wrong. But even when I said I want to divorce; you didn’t lose your shit. I mean, I’ve never really seen you emotionally fracture. Now you may have been hurting bad inside. And you may have been afraid or nervous or felt away inside, but I never see it. All right, this email comes from a listener named Carrie who has a question for Michael. She asks:
Jaime Primak Sullivan
“was it just as hard dating a northern person, as it was for Jaime to adapt to being in the south? How Michael, did you have to adapt to dating a Yankee? Did you hit as many roadblocks as she did along the way?”
Michael Sullivan 36:14
No, I mean, actually, it was probably easier. Just because not that all Northerners are this way. But I mean, what you see is what you get. There was no guessing. So yeah, I’m sure she found it more difficult, substantially.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, and also your personality makes it hard. Because you’re not forthcoming. You can be very aloof at times. You don’t chase or pursue. So I felt like I spent more time guessing than you did.
Michael Sullivan
I agree, you’re a better guesser.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I’m better a lot of things.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay. listener question number five. This question comes from Gretchen, who emailed to ask Michael. “Michael, had you ever been to New Jersey before meeting Jaime? And when you went, what did you think of the state, the food, the shore, the best people on the planet? ”
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I’m guessing Gretchen is from New Jersey.
Michael Sullivan
I had been in New Jersey but never passed. I’ve been to Atlantic City and to Newark, flown into Newark, but never anywhere.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Not like in central in the middle state.
Michael Sullivan
In the suburbia.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay. What do you think of the state?
Michael Sullivan
I mean, outside of Newark, when you go south down towards Philly, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s pretty. It’s just suburb after suburb. You know, there’s no major cities. You know, so it’s not a metropolitan feel throughout the state.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 38:02
No.
Michael Sullivan
Which people who don’t go there think it is, they think the whole state is Newark.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Right. And it is called the Garden State.
Michael Sullivan
So it’s surprising but no, I had been there. I’ve been to Atlantic City. I’d seen the show or so.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
What do you think of like where I grew up?
Michael Sullivan
I mean, it could be a suburb here in Alabama.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Except for a much better school system.
Michael Sullivan
I mean it’s pretty common.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Do you like New Jersey?
Michael Sullivan
I don’t dislike New Jersey. I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t choose to live there. Basically, because of the weather. It’s not enough sun and warm days
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Golf.
Michael Sullivan
Plenty of golf. But the seasons only six months a year.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Oh no.
Michael Sullivan
I mean, it’s a great golf, but.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Only six months a year. Could you imagine people? Did you ever think that you would get me to agree to live in Alabama full time? Like did that thought factor in when you wanted to propose did you think?
Michael Sullivan
I mean, you’ve never really expressed a reluctance until you got here. So no, I didn’t.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Okay.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
All right. So before we answer any more of your questions, we’re going to take a quick break.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
And we’re back. And listener, question number six. If you’re tuning in now, you missed the beginning and you should go back and listen, but just in case. My husband Michael Sullivan is my guest this week and next week and this email comes from Sierra in Anchorage, Alaska. She has a question for Michael and I about parenting. She says: “My husband and I are planning get pregnant and are having many discussions about the future and how we will parent. Did you to ever sit and talk before you are pregnant to discuss parenting styles, and the types of parents you want it to be? What kind of topics Do you think potential new parents should discuss?”
Jaime Primak Sullivan 40:16
Now you’re laughing. Because you know what I’m gonna say right? Remember before Olivia was born, what you tell me? “My kids are never gonna watch TV.”
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Right? You used to sit with her in your arms when she was a baby and watch Morning Joe every morning, then you would sit with her and watch Elmo. And then Dora, all of it. You’re such a sucker. I think first of all, when it comes to parenting, you shouldn’t make any rules before you have kids. Because the truth is, you think you know what kind of parent you’re going to be until you have the children. And then you’re like, Well, that was a joke. Anyway, Michael, what do you think? Did we ever talk? We did
Michael Sullivan
Not specifically about parenting styles. Because we have two different types of styles. But..
Jaime Primak Sullivan
We were also raised by very different parents.
Michael Sullivan
Correct, but we didn’t put a template down and say, Okay, here’s how we’re going to parent. I mean, it came pretty fast and quick. And at that point, you’re just holding on to survive. So..
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Yeah, we had three under three,
Michael Sullivan
You have more time, as they get older to figure that out the first two or three years. I mean, you’re just keeping them healthy. It doesn’t matter what kind of parents you are. Give them a roof, give them food, give them rest. And you got plenty of time to figure out the parenting side of things.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, and we you I think our biggest fight in this marriage is parenting.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
It just, it frustrates me so much. And you live for those moments when I make mistakes, because you so badly want to be like “see, it’s not just me, you arbitrarily made a decision without me.” It’s infuriating. But I will say you are the best father I know. And I’m not just saying that because you’re my kid’s father, you really are the best father, I know. You were the most present emotion, mentally, and physically, not emotionally. But mentally and physically. You are the most present father I have ever met. You were the most hands-on father. You know, it is so rare when you say no to a child who wants to spend any kind of time with you.
Michael Sullivan
It is.
Jaime Primak Sullivan 42:55
No matter what they want to do. They want to throw a ball, they want to bake cookies, they want to play Monopoly, they want to go ride bikes, they want to go to the skate park, they want to walk around Target, they want to go to Five and Below. It’s like no jump on the trampoline. No matter what it is. You never say no, they really broke the mold with you.
Michael Sullivan
Well, I mean, I’ve got the benefit, I’m not 27 working three jobs. You know, I had kids older in life. So, you know, I was a little more established. I have more time and you know; I feel like I’d rather enjoy it. Some people don’t have that option. And there’s all they can do to…
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Well, okay, you’re absolutely right. But I will say and I’m so grateful to be able to say this, but I don’t have to work in this marriage.
Michael Sullivan
Yes, you do.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
I mean financially, I don’t have to work in this marriage. You’re right. Mentally. I have to work in this marriage. You are absolutely right for both of us. But financially, I don’t have to work. I could just pour into my kids I could. And I don’t say just lightly but I mean, I could say to you, I want to stay home until Charlie, you know goes to college. I want to you know; we don’t need help. Let’s just I’ll do all you know; I’ll do the homework. I’ll do the school parties. The birthday. I’ll do all of it. And I don’t do that. I’m not the mother, you are father. I think I’m a good mother. My children think I’m a good mother. But I’m not the mother, you are father. You’re a better father than I am mother. That’s the truth. I just would like to note the fucking silence. Okay, no, you’re podcast didn’t cut out. That’s actual Michael Sullivan silence.
Michael Sullivan 45:02
Technical difficulties?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
That’s actual Michael Sullivan silence, essentially receiving that compliment and ensuring that I know, I am correct. He is a better father than I am mother, period. And it’s fine because I know he is. Would it have been nice if he said I wasn’t really that bad after Max was born? Sure, but you’re not. If you go to Michael fishing for compliments, you are never going to get them. You could have a fucking scale. One of those things that tells you how deep the lake is, you could have the best lore, you could have a worm that does the fucking Macarena on the end of your hook. If you go fishing for compliments from Michael Sullivan, you are never going to get them. Ever. Thank God, I have a son. Thank you, God for giving me Max who tells me all the time how beautiful I am.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Our last question this week comes from Ruby, who reached out to me on Facebook and she asks, thanks, Ruby. “If Michael could change one thing about you, would he? And what would it be?” Give a real answer.
Michael Sullivan 46:09
There’s nothing that I lay awake at night wishing would change. So nothing. I mean, nothing that amounts to anything. I mean, there’s a lot of sticks running around. But that doesn’t amount to something I wish you would change. So, no.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Do you ever wish I was less public?
Michael Sullivan
I’m not bothering.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Even when you get calls from like your parents, and they’re like “geez”.
Michael Sullivan
That’s their issue, not mine.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
You know, that is the sexiest thing about you to me. Hands down. Yes. I think you’re a beautiful man. I love the way you dress. Like, I love the way you love our children. The sexiest thing about you is you don’t give a shit. What anybody thinks you will choose me in this marriage over anyone, anytime. No one would ever try to go to war with you, against me because they would just never win. Like, you know how sometimes women complain like he always takes his mother side and my mother-in-law is delightful. She’s never put him in that position. In fact, I think she would take my side and most most things.
Michael Sullivan
Yeah.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
But you always, always have my back. Like, you may say to someone, okay, I’ll talk to her about whatever your issue is sure. Like, the time I got in trouble for opening my mouth on the airplane. Remember that?
Michael Sullivan
No.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Remember when I said something on the airplane out loud, and you came home and you were like, “Did you say this on an airplane?” And I was like “How the hell did you know?” And you were like, because it was a charter plane from Atlanta to Birmingham. How many people on that flight did you think knew my mother?
Jaime Primak Sullivan 48:06
Don’t you remember? Well, clearly it was not that important to you. But my point was, you received a very angry call about that. And you let them know like, Sure, I will discuss it with her. But it’s never like, like, I never feel like you’re still not on my side. You know, that’s why I think I respect so much when you say something to me. Because when you do say something when you do correct me the few times you have corrected me, I respect it because I know it’s coming from a place of love. And I know you always have my back. Except for last night. Like those little things you do that shit bothers me by the way.
Michael Sullivan
What did I last night?
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Like you’re having a normal conversation. Sometimes I feel like you start normal conversations with me like, sometimes I even think to myself, don’t get into this trap. Like when you start really talking. I’m like, this feels nice. Wow, this is a real conversation. I say something he says something back and that goes on for and then it’s almost like you’re only doing it so you can shit on me. Just so you know. That’s how I feel.
Michael Sullivan
Okay.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
Just letting you know.
Jaime Primak Sullivan
All right. Well, the good news for you Michael is that’s all for this week’s episode. But we will be back next week with Michael to answer more of your questions since you guys really only care about what he has to say.
Michael Sullivan
Bright audience.
CREDITS
TELL ME WHAT TO DO is a production of Lemonada Media. The show is produced by Kryssy Pease and Alex McOwen. It’s edited by Ivan Kuraev. Music is by Dan Molad. Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jaime Primak Sullivan are our executive producers. Rate and review us and follow us at @LemonadaMedia on all your favorite social platforms. Of course you can follow me at @JaimePrimakSullivan on Facebook or at @JamiePSullivan on Instagram. If you have any questions for me that you want me to answer on the show, give me a call at 833-453-6662
