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Description

We’ve been forced to take on a lot of new customs and habits in 2020 –– zoom calls, outdoor hangouts, masks, aggressive hand-washing, widespread uncertainty. In today’s episode, Kulap and SuChin decide what they want to keep from 2020 and what they want to leave behind. And it gets pretty deep. (Did our producers cry? Yes.) On a personal note, SuChin is ready to start sending herself different messages about herself, and Kulap is preparing to face a difficult decision about family planning.

Please note, Add To Cart contains mature themes and may not be appropriate for all listeners.

For a list and links to all products mentioned in this episode, head to @addtocartpod on Instagram.

Stay up to date with us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at @LemonadaMedia.

Transcription

SPEAKERS

Kulap Vilaysack, SuChin Pak

SuChin Pak  00:10

Hey everyone, I am SuChin Pak.

Kulap Vilaysack

And I’m Kulap Vilaysack.

SuChin Pak 

And this is ADD TO CART. It’s a show about the things we buy and buy into.

Kulap Vilaysack 

This week’s episode we are reflecting a bit on this year, there have been a lot of things that have sort of been thrust upon us, like Zoom calls for everything, outdoor hangouts. Tiger King. Oh my gosh, do you remember Tiger King?

SuChin Pak 

No, I don’t I mean, I do, but I don’t.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Top of the core, and the inability to hug our loved ones.

SuChin Pak 

So for this episode, we want to look at some of those things and decide what we want to keep from 2020.

Kulap Vilaysack 

And what we want to leave behind and set on fire.

SuChin Pak

That’s right. And, of course, our 2021 wish lists. So I think I will start things off. So this is a category for what am I keeping from 2020? Let me preface this by saying that I am not a workout person. I’m not a coordinator person. Let me just put that out there. Because what I’ve picked seem to suggest I’m one of those people that I don’t own one workout piece of clothing. you know what I mean?

Kulap Vilaysack

What?

SuChin Pak 

I don’t own. I don’t own a sneaker like I owe a pair of Converse.

Kulap Vilaysack

Hold on, not a Lululemon?

SuChin Pak

No.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Not a Nike?

SuChin Pak 

No.

Kulap Vilaysack

Wow. Wow.

SuChin Pak 

And I don’t own a pair of sneakers. I mean, Converse, like I said, Converse high tops cream. That’s my jam. So I have two apps that I want to share with you. It’s a yoga app called Down Dog. Have you heard of this? So you can upgrade and pay for a fancy version of it. I just do the free version of it. And then there’s another app called the seven-minute workout app. Are you familiar with the seven-minute routines?

Kulap Vilaysack  02:09

I have heard of the seven-minute workout.

SuChin Pak

So the seven-minute workout for those that may not be familiar, because let me tell you about workouts. It’s I don’t remember when it was a few years ago, I feel like the New York Times really kind of took this from a small thing that people were doing to like the mainstream. And this article, if I remember correctly, proposed that if you did seven minutes of this workout every day, it was the equivalent of to let’s say 30 minutes of gym time cardio, You know what I mean?

Kulap Vilaysack 

Concentrated times, quick circuits.

SuChin Pak 

That’s right. And so that was like a big craze. And somewhere around there. I was like, Well, I don’t work out. I mean, I know I should work out, seven minutes? That doesn’t seem too hard to commit to. So then I started to do this. And I like this app, because it randomizes the seven minutes like there are other apps that I’ve tried. And there’s a standard seven minutes.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Yes, I’ve seen those.

SuChin Pak

Yes, that so standard seven minutes, but this seven-minute workout app, actually randomizes so it’s always a different seven minutes.

Kulap Vilaysack

Okay, that’s good. keeps you on your toes tricks you so you don’t get bored challenge. I love it SuChin.

SuChin Pak

And then the final thing I have on here is called seven minutes of magic. Does that sound sexual to you? You have to put seven minutes of magic Qigong, or else you’re going to get seven minutes or something else. I don’t know what else..

Kulap Vilaysack

What I’m seeing right now. It is a man whose skin matches his creamy shirt. It’s long sleeved. The background is a large body of water. I think it’s I’m gonna it’s sunset, the sky is pink. In the foreground, a little more the foreground, we’ve got evergreen firs and again in the background, we’ve got the water and mountains and beyond that is the sky. And again a creamy, creamy guy. Continue..

SuChin Pak  03:54

Creamy is a nice way of putting what his skin color is, it’s a great cream, but let’s anyway, we’re not here. I don’t care about this guy, his skin regimen. You know what I mean? He’s living his best life on a mountaintop. what I’m telling you is that this particular seven-minute Qigong is more like a moving meditation. I think if you have trouble sitting and really meditating and we’ve all know the health benefits of meditating both physically, emotionally, you know, mentally, it’s really hard. I think it is hard for me. I get really, it actually can. I’ve gotten panic attacks meditating.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Really?

SuChin Pak

Yeah, where I feel, I’ll go through an anxiety like thought. And it just, I can’t let go of it. And I know that part of meditation is to really embrace that. But I’ve gotten to the point why you have to get up and stop a panic attack from coming on. So given that this was kind of my work around, I get a lot of the benefits of meditation, but you’re moving the entire time. And it’s very short. And so these are kind of the three between the apps and the video, the three things that I do, and I don’t do this every day, I try to do one of these a day, maybe two.

Kulap Vilaysack

And I’m still like, forcing myself to imagine you on workout gear and I cannot do it. Even like a paper doll. It’s like the little things keep coming off. Like in my imagination. I cannot get you in a sports bra. It’s crazy.

SuChin Pak  06:10

No, it really, I generally don’t own bathing suits or any type of workout clothes like this. I just had…

Kulap Vilaysack 

You go to the beach.

SuChin Pak 

And I have a pool. And I’ve swam in it in my bra and my underwear. And you know, I like a big underwear. So it’s not like I’m taking my clothes off. And it’s like, Oh, mom, inappropriate. It’s fully very appropriate.

SuChin Pak

These are lazy thigs.

SuChin Pak 

No, these are akin to biker shorts with the highest technological thread as you know wick away. Moisture wicking away technology. And generally my bras are of the same ilk.

Kulap Vilaysack

What an image, what an image. And that note, I’m going to talk to you about the things that I’m going to hold on to. The first thing is something that you recommended. Why do you laugh?

SuChin Pak 

I don’t know why I’m going through what I recommended. I’m like okay.

Kulap Vilaysack 

There’s a lot so this is hard for you to remember all the things that I’ve asked advice for. I texted you, I was like, what do you know about weighted blankets? Cuz Scott is a light sleeper, and I want to weigh him down so that he has to stay in bed. And also SuChin  he runs hot. And so you came up with a great recommend, which is the Bearaby specifically the Bearaby Tree Napper, which is a plant-based cooling weighted blanket made from silky soft natural Eucalyptus fibers. And that starts at $269 for a 15 pounder, it ain’t cheap. And we got it. I was like, honey, you reading the instructions. They say you got to train.

Kulap Vilaysack  08:14

We’re going to start with like 30 minutes. We’ll put it downstairs and then we’ll work up to putting it on top of you in the bedroom. And it never ended up there. Because me and the dogs took it over. I freaking love this thing. I love like both my little dog Georgia; she gets very anxious and she calms down under that blanket. And in moments of stress, I’m just tucking in, and I’m feeling held. And it’s the perfect thing to have on top of us like we’re watching TV.

SuChin Pak 

Oh, I’m so glad this one worked out.

Kulap Vilaysack 

For me, for me.

SuChin Pak

For you. Sometime Scott.

Kulap Vilaysack

And the last thing that I’m taking with me from 2020 into 2021 is something that you’ve seen on me already. You’ve laughed at me I get what you’re laughing at me. But you know, I’m bringing in my narwhal mask.

SuChin Pak

I cannot wait for people to see this on the Instagram. Describe what it looks like.

Kulap Vilaysack 

A mask meant for the water. Do you remember? So you remember the Smurfs? Right?

SuChin Pak 

Yes.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Do you remember this? The under the sea spin off called the Snorks. That’s what that looks like. It’s like a scuba mask or a what’s the where you’re just on the top of the submarine.

SuChin Pak

It looks like a submarine. But what are you talking about?

Kulap Vilaysack 

Yeah, okay, so this narwhal mask, you know, it is an airtight shield with a 99.997 viral filtration. So we got viral in the mouthpiece and then up here we have filters appear at the top.

SuChin Pak  10:10

No one’s coming near you in that because they think you’re batshit crazy. That thing is 100% effective.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Will I be made fun of when I take it out? Probably but also have I gotten compliments like when I went to the Six Flags, holiday drive thru with lights where you have to you keep your windows down so you can hear the music, and everyone else is wearing masks. Their eyes aren’t protected. My eyes sure are protected. And a lot of the park workers said it looked very cool.

SuChin Pak 

They were all lying.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Granted the person who said it looked very cool was on stilts and his part of the park was a kind of a.. I don’t I didn’t even understand why it was but it was sort of that what’s that a steampunk I don’t get why part of that park has like a steampunk vibe. So of course he was like “cool mask.”

SuChin Pak 

By the way, he didn’t think it was a protective mask. He just thought that that was your festive snork Christmas mask.

Kulap Vilaysack 

No, they probably 100% thought that I got it from a Scuba rental place. That’s what they thought..

SuChin Pak

Okay, Kulap.

Kulap Vilaysack

What?

SuChin Pak

I don’t know. Actually, I was gonna say something that I actually don’t know if this is true or not. So I’m actually going to ask you, do you think I’m a vain person? Honestly.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Yes.

SuChin Pak

Okay, because I was about to say, I’m not a vain person. And then I thought about it. I was like, I think I’m pretty fucking vain.

Kulap Vilaysack

I mean, you know, like, it. That’s such a weird thing. Because you’re also somebody who just told us how you were centrally spanx into your pool?

SuChin Pak  12:05

Yeah but yes and no, I’m both, right? I can be that person. But I am also very vain when I had heard that possibly that the virus was maybe getting through the eye area. And I was in the Whole Foods bar. So my mother-in-law bought me one of those, like, you know, those face shields?

Kulap Vilaysack

Yep, I got one.

SuChin Pak

Yeah, Korean ladies, you know, ajimas have been wearing those for years and keeping out on hikes. And I was like, I’m gonna wear this on a mask, and I got in the parking lot. And I put it on, I walked outside. And before I could close the door, I was like, I can’t, I can’t, I had to take it off. And I was like, I cannot believe that if this was going to possibly save my life, you know, the health of my family. I actually can’t walk into Whole Foods with this. I feel like I look insane. And yet you just showed us a Scuba Mask.

Kulap Vilaysack 

You know, like in the 2000s, I decided to have pink bangs. Sometimes they were green. How much different is that? I have never, I am vain. And also I am a fool. And those two things, you know, they manifest in different ways. All right, let’s take a break, shall we? And we’ll be right back with some more ADD TO CART.

Kulap Vilaysack 

We are back on ADD TO CART. SuChin, how were you doing in the break? How do you feel? Are you feeling good?

SuChin Pak 

I feel good. I feel refreshed. I feel good also that I got that off my chest that I am a vain person and that you.. Yeah, let me know that. That was..

Kulap Vilaysack 

Well, you asked me a question. And I answered.  What are some things? You know, we talked about things that we’d keep from 2020. What things.. By the way I know there’s so many things you would like to leave behind. But what are a few things?

SuChin Pak  14:12

Well, you know, when we were thinking about this category, the thing that popped into my mind right away, and it’s not necessarily a just a 2020 thing, but it’s in general I’ve been thinking about is this phrase, I’m tired. Do you know what I mean? I say that phrase, I’m tired in my head and out loud probably 30 times a day. It’s a lot.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Wow.

SuChin Pak 

Where I wake up and the first thing I think is tired. And I do this and my kids are asking me for them and I’m just like, I’m tired. And I’ll sit down. How are you doing today? I don’t know. I’m just tired, tired, tired. And I think I don’t know at what point and I think it was just being in the house and kind of you know what I mean, a little bit more contained. That I was like, damn, I say that a lot. I wonder if how I’m feeling is because I say that all day long.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Oh interesting.

SuChin Pak 

How much of it am I actually tired? And how much of it is this kind of energy that I’ve been putting out for years. And it’s become this almost habitual, like, brain groove that’s like, so deep.

Kulap Vilaysack

Like a record?

SuChin Pak 

Yes, it’s like a broken record. And, you know, we come from the same sort of belief system in some ways where there’s energy where you have a thought, and then when you speak the word, and then when you act on it, and each of those things carry a different weight, a different meaning of vibration, but just the thought alone, it affects the way that you feel. And it affects the way that your body responds. I mean, it’s a physiological and emotional aspect. So I was just thinking about, if I try to stop saying I’m tired, I can’t control I’m not sure if I can just control the thought completely.

SuChin Pak  16:20

Like, I think that that takes a little bit more. I think that’ll take a bit more therapy, to be honest with you to see where that was gone. But if I can just stop myself from saying it. You know, in cutting that off, like I was thinking, but I don’t know, if you have any good advice about like, like do you have a thing that you say that constantly reminds you of a lack in your life? And it’s I think we all have it. It’s like an unconscious thing. I know a lot of women, it’s about the way that they look, you know?

Kulap Vilaysack 

Yeah, and I’ve heard it said in a different way before, like, it’s sort of an old story, that you tell yourself, things that you lack or comparing yourself. And somehow it’s tied to your wordiness. I am somebody who tries to. And I know you’re gonna laugh when I say that. But very much am somebody who tries to live in abundance. In fact, I’m like, looking to the side, at this little altar I have set up in my office. And by little, I don’t mean little. And I have a sort of mantra that a lady named Florence Scovel Shinn, I read her writings about it, and it says infinite spirit, open the way for my great abundance, I am an irresistible magnet to all that belongs to me by divine right.

Kulap Vilaysack 

And like, it’s something that I think about and hold on, I ask for it to flow towards me. And if it’s mine, then it’s mine. What you’re saying is I words do matter. And forgive me for what I’m about to say. But like we you know, like the kids book way of putting it is that what we speak, we say spells and the things that you recite over and over again, become a reality. So I am in full support of you. Which sounds to me is like you’re just gonna be mindful about saying it.

Kulap Vilaysack  18:29

And that when you are truly tired and exhausted, it means something. What you’re talking about is like no small feat. It’s rewiring your behavior that has, you know, you’ve had for a very, very long time, and it is it is hard. And it’s there is a cool that you’ve pinpointed something that you can put your attention to, which I can totally understand and see how it affects you.

SuChin Pak 

Yeah. I mean, that’s something interesting that you brought up because I was like, well, the therapy part of it was, I think I even want to do a little research around cognitive therapy, which is a different type of therapy, then the talk therapy that I do often, it is a wiring of the brain. I think people don’t understand how significant the stories we tell about ourselves, the stories we say out loud, the words we use on a persistent and often used basis, those things get wired into the brain, and they become a way of being, but I think the awareness itself was quite like that was a big, big, big thing for me.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Yeah, I think my late 30s realized that being self-deprecating all the time was actually costing me in my ability to really take up space and like kind of take ownership and the things that I know and can do. Then in a small part, talking about trying to like, edit how I speak, I really try not to say just, I really try not to qualify or tone down my statements. And so that’s something that like, I’m like, trying to kind of train myself to like, not do that. So I really understand everything you’re saying is what I’m and I support you.

SuChin Pak 

Thank you.

SuChin Pak 

All right, what about you? What are you leaving behind in this great year 2020?

Kulap Vilaysack

Well, earlier I mentioned that through the quarantine, I’d gotten into the iPhone game Fishdom. Okay, and I’m done with that. It’s erased from my phone. I’m done. I’m done. Because a listener got me, it’s a Gardenscapes. In the @AddtoCartPod, a listener was like, Hey, Kulap. Have you tried Gardenscapes? I was like, I’ve dabbled. I don’t know. I’m not sure but check on me in a week. Sure enough, within the week I had downloaded and I had played it every day.

SuChin Pak

By the way, it looks like the same people who did fishing.

Kulap Vilaysack

It is the same people.

SuChin Pak 

Okay, I was like, wait a minute. The font, the graphics.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Don’t feel bad for Fishdom because Gardenscape while the game is free, if I get to a point where I need, you know, like more tools, it’s $15.99 to get 12,000 more coins, six shovels, six rainbow blast, six bombs, and three dynamite rainbow blast combos. You don’t know what those are. But I did purchase the

SuChin Pak 

$15.99 Oh, yeah, this company is going for the high-income bracket. High income bracket I see.

Kulap Vilaysack

And you know as I play this game, you know, does make me think about you know, just society and capitalism because like, you know, if you’ve got that money to get you out of jams, you’re way better off. Anyways, you can learn about systemic racism in everywhere in the society. And I submit also, both Fishdom and Gardenscapes.

Kulap Vilaysack  22:19

SuChin are you ok? Where’d you go

SuChin Pak 

I need a moment. I really have to acknowledge the mastery that you took in that moment to connect a garden game to systemic racism.

Kulap Vilaysack

When you say garden game does still seem like you’re talking about like physical labor. Just really, really want to be clear to everyone that this is an iPhone game, where you have a butler and a dog who fixed up your garden.

SuChin Pak

Cool.

Kulap Vilaysack

And the last thing that I want to leave behind, which I don’t think I’m going to be able to but I’m going to work on it is my COVID 19 pounds. SuChin Pak, you mentioned this earlier about being active I used to be very you know almost an athletic. I have, well I have to have sports bras because these Clydesdales need to be wrapped up in harness otherwise they you know it they just it’s like cannons coming forth in any sort of excitable movement.

Kulap Vilaysack

So I have many workout outfits. And in quarantine, there are moments in times where I work out but for the most part, I have really succumbed to a very sedentary lifestyle and have taken on more calories just across the board. Really across the board.

SuChin Pak  24:03

You got an electric bike; I don’t see how you can’t shed those 19 pounds as a motor scoots you up ahead.

Kulap Vilaysack 

There is a reckoning on its way. I have an upcoming doctor appointment with Dr. Michel Becker. And I am back in his care because for the last like four years, I was in the care of my fertility doctor. And you know, we had to go it was all about doing that. But I know Dr. Becker is gonna have words with me. And I’m and he’s gonna be right. And it will be based on science, my blood work, my weight. These are things that will be unarguable like I won’t be able to debate him. And I will have to just sit in that and make some changes and I know it’s coming and I accept it.

SuChin Pak

Well, there’s no blaming here. There’s no shifting. Absolutely we take responsibility for our own but we did say once in a prior episode that Scott was baking whole cakes. You guys are eating cakes. Not like cake slices cakes.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Look, you know, I hear you. You’re right. And my feelings were big before they got even bigger during this quarantine, I do eat them as well. And so there is a direct correlation that you don’t need to have a doctorate to really see. And so yeah, you know, like a lot of..

SuChin Pak 

You seem really okay with it, though. Truly.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Yeah, you know, I just can’t keep doing this.

SuChin Pak  26:03

Remember, 2020 was about soothing, that was necessary. You needed all that cake. And who knows in 2021 it may be a reckoning, but that’s okay. We’re not there yet. We still have a few more weeks of cake. Enjoy it.

Kulap Vilaysack 

SuChin here’s the tough thing, because I’m at a certain age I didn’t need all that cake I knew it then. And she still persists. We’re gonna take another break and we’ll be back with more ADD TO CART.

SuChin Pak

Alright everyone, welcome back to ADD TO CART. Now we’re going to talk about what is on our wish list for 2021? So I’ll go first. My thing that I added was a cashmere sweatsuit. I didn’t add a brand. I didn’t add a link, because it doesn’t fucking matter. This has been on my wish list, probably since it was invented. I want to say like maybe early 2000s. I had heard maybe it was like an Oprah Winfrey.

SuChin Pak 

Like you know one of her most coveted things are some I was like they make sweatsuits in cashmere? And people. This is what they lounge in. The luxury, the abundance and that’s what right you were talking about this earlier about living from abundance. I do not live from abundance.

Kulap Vilaysack 

Yeah, I first got that idea when we were talking about sparkling drinks and the fact that you cut your yerba mate a drink multiple times during the day.

SuChin Pak  28:07

So this cashmere sweatsuit, this infamous cashmere sweatsuit, this vague cashmere sweatsuit of 2021 is what this symbolizes for me is this kind of trying to figure out ways on a small minute to minute basis, because I’m not talking about big grand gestures, because I do feel like the profound changes happen in those tiny moments that you know, those everyday moments that we spend with ourselves brushing our teeth, looking at what we’re wearing, checking out the crow’s feet, or you know what I mean? All those little tiny moments.

SuChin Pak 

Those conversations we have with ourselves is where a lot of profound changes happens. So this cashmere sweat suit in 2021 do I want a cashmere sweatsuit literally from anywhere in 2021? Yes. But it also is kind of for me trying to figure out ways to sit and live and act and think from abundance. And that’s gonna take a lot of time and I’m actually kind of looking forward to it. It’s a lot more interesting to look at what that means versus what I’m lacking. You know what I mean? So I put cashmere sweatsuit.

Kulap Vilaysack

I love this so much. This is like your 2021 flag. I mean, something to refer to. It’s so tactile. I’m a Taurus, you guys, I’m all about the sensuality, the senses. And that having you know that feeling on your skin, the extravagance of like, you know of it all, you know this is something you can’t wash in the machine. A sweatsuit that must be dry cleaned. But it’s about it’s not just about the thing. It’s about the feeling of how do you see yourself. I mean, you know, I am, of course, I support this and have your back. And I’m thinking about this for you for the next year.

SuChin Pak 

One of those things, something you reminded me of, I remember when I was, you know, in my 20s. And, you know, I grew up with very little money, and I supported my family, you know, for me when I was working in my 20s, and I got my first job, I’m sure you can relate to this was, how am I going to pay for my parents? How am I going to pay for, you know, me, my brother, my whole family? Like, how am I going to keep this family from ever worrying about it?

SuChin Pak

That’s a lot of stress for someone in their 20s. And to wake up with that, you know, what I mean? Like barely making it through the day. So freaked out all the time is because of that pressure. And so when you said that cashmere suit, to be like to have that physical reminder on your body that like, hey, it’s gonna be totally okay. Like, can you feel it in every cell in every fiber of your body? Like, can you do that?

SuChin Pak 

And I know that’s not going to be an easy thing. But when you said that, I thought, wow, because in my mind, I was never gonna buy this cashmere sweatsuit, but I’m thinking maybe I should, you know, put it on and sit there with all the conflicted feelings I’m going to have about, like, should I keep the tag on for two more weeks? If it’s too hot, if it starts to pill, then I could return it like, you know what I mean, but without all of that, it just, I don’t know.

Kulap Vilaysack

But that’s not where we come from.

SuChin Pak  32:00

We pass down. So we will be like eww, I don’t want this stinky sweats that you’ve been wearing for 40 years, it’s an heirloom. It’s from Madewell. Anyway, all right. What about you, what’s on your wish list for 2021?

Kulap Vilaysack

I look back at my 2020 like goals that I do goals every year. And I look back and I’m like wow, cute little girl.

SuChin Pak 

When do you do your goals?

Kulap Vilaysack 

First of the year, and I don’t call them resolutions. What I do is what are the things that I can lose so that I can make room for new goals or new so that’s my kind of thought process what can I lose so that I can gain so it’s not just a huge list of like to do you know what I mean? Like so there’s more tahini.

SuChin Pak

Incorporate chia seeds. I have a jar tahini that I bought I don’t even know what for I can’t throw it away. Because it’s a jar of tahini. What do I do with this jar of tahini?

Kulap Vilaysack 

Tell me because I have the same jar in my fridge right now.

SuChin Pak

Why did I buy it? I can’t throw it away. It’s a jar of tahini. It’s sesame seeds, sesame seeds had to be pressed for a jar of tahini.

Kulap Vilaysack

The last thing I want to share is very personal. But I kind of want to say it out loud. I want to know what my family path is. A little bit about me I’ve been trying to have a family for about and get pregnant and stay pregnant for probably four or five years. Worked with fertility clinics pretty solidly for four years. I’ve gone through IVF. I had found out that I had a septum, a heart shaped uterus that had to get shaved back. It’s looking like it got shaved too far back. And so I’m probably not able to carry.

Kulap Vilaysack

And so while that in many ways gave me a lot of relief that it’s not on me and my body. And I don’t have to feel that sense of failure, again. It does open sort of what should I do? What do I want to do? Because I’ve had six miscarriages and it’s just been that part of my life has been really, really challenging and enlarge by somewhat character defining in a way, because I’ve had to kind of just it’s not something that I can push forward and make happen. I just haven’t been able to do that. So I’m in a place now where I’m thinking about the enormity of either surrogacy, adoption or the third path which is no kids. And I am considering three equally.

Kulap Vilaysack 

And it’s been, I’ve been I mean, talk about therapy, I’ve been sort of just, I truly am not sure. I don’t know. I don’t know, I think, yeah, I don’t know what I want to do yet. And I’m hoping in 2021, I will know which path to least move forward in. It’s tough, especially around the holidays, thinking about this, this type of stuff. With all of my time by myself, it’s no wonder that I’ve decorated every square inch of my domicile. And after I get off with you will be making dozens of cookies. Have I ever done that before? No. But this bitch did go on Etsy and got supplies.

SuChin Pak  36:27

She did do Add To Cart. You know, it’s really interesting those three choices. I know that you have been thinking about this, but I didn’t realize there was a third option that you were even considering, which is no kids.

Kulap Vilaysack 

The third option has happened within the last two months.

SuChin Pak 

Yeah, what can I ask what that’s about? Like, because I didn’t, I always just pictured you that it was to me, it was just an inevitability, you know? Not because of me, but because I know how hard you’ve tried and how much you’ve wanted to have kids. So what has changed in the last two months?

Kulap Vilaysack

I think it was when I realized that it wasn’t about me caring anymore. When the relief that came where I wouldn’t have to care or I wouldn’t try to carry again, it did shift. First of all, I was upset and angry. I got to see my doctor, my do all that, like all these thoughts, right? Like, am I gonna use that rage of that, then it shifted into relief. Just relief. You know, I know a lot of people listening have had miscarriages. And all of mine have been really early. The last one was, they all been tough. But the last one, you know, was eight weeks. And heartbeat was strong. And then it was gone.

Kulap Vilaysack

Yeah. And it’s just, with the meds and then the up and the down. And, you know, I’ve been thinking, well, what do you want to do? I know, I can be very bullish. And I have a goal, I just like, go for it. I get blinded by it. And in this place of quiet, is that still what you want? Because being 40 is different when I started when I first got pregnant at 33-34. And there’s things to consider there. For me, for my husband, it is there’s difference. There’s a difference. And I think I do believe that if we just take it down to having kids and kids and just say two options however I get to having kids if I decide to do that.

Kulap Vilaysack  38:44

I think I really do believe those are beautiful lives that be great lives. But what is it that I want? Like, you know, and that’s what I’m weighing. 40? You know, look, I mean, I am accustomed to a certain sort of lifestyle, you know, and I am accustomed to sort of creative lifestyle too. I just if I do this, I just really want to if I look the surrogacy thing, it is hard for me to think about, I never let somebody else do something that this important. And there’s nothing more important than this.

Kulap Vilaysack 

You know, and but I can’t, I can’t I live physically can’t, that I have scar tissue at the top of my uterus. I can’t, you know, we’ve tried that a bunch, and it just hasn’t worked. So, I mean, that’s the definition of surrogacy, and if I can’t give up that control, and if I can’t, you know, that’s something. What am I willing to give up? I don’t know. And so it’s, these are. I’m in the midst of it. So I don’t have clear thoughts really. All I know is I don’t know what I want to do.

SuChin Pak 

I just want to say two things and take them or leave them, you know, they’re just two things that I’m feeling, which is one when those kinds of decisions where it feels like these are the decisions that matter, you know, these are the things that define our lives and whatnot, I do believe that you are the type of person that you have a support system where that answer will come to you. And so sometimes I think we don’t let that answer come because we’re trying to force the answer quicker, or on a time schedule that you want, versus relaxing.

SuChin Pak  40:40

And knowing that feeling of clarity comes to me often about a lot of difficult decisions in my life, I find that focusing on that feeling of clarity versus what the answer should or could be, is a lot more productive. And I know that sounds a little bit ambiguous, but the worrying about what the right answer sometimes keeps you from feeling really good about an answer. And then just more practically, you know, I joke about leaning out parenting that my book is going to be called Leaning Way Out. But there’s a lot of truth and pain there. You know, parenting has been really difficult for me.

SuChin Pak 

I mean, my kids are beyond, they’re only six and eight. So I’ve only had maybe a year or two of where I don’t feel this way, it was dark, like dark, like a kind of darkness where you just no way out of it other than like, you just like cry your way through it because you can’t leave the life that you chose. There just two choices. I think you’re already there. Because I think we have this assumption that having kids and raising kids and, and being a part of that process, especially as women, is some sort of profound experience that if you don’t have it, you are missing an essential part of what it means to be a woman and human.

SuChin Pak  42:17

And I don’t believe that having had kids. I do believe that those are just two different choices. And they lead to two different paths. But that profoundness that connection that love all of that can be experienced with or without children. And I didn’t know that until I had kids.

Kulap Vilaysack

I really appreciated like I just that what you’ve said, in your honesty, I don’t know your perspective has been.. I just appreciate you, regardless of my situation or not. What you’re saying I think does get set a lot. And I really, really appreciate it.

SuChin Pak

I mean, it took me a really long time to understand that you could not like parenting and still be a really, really awesome parent, that you could not like parenting and still really love your kids. Because when you have that feeling of like, I really don’t like this, you think that something is broken. People tell you that something is wrong. You feel like you’re a monster. You know what I mean? Like, there’s something so fundamentally fucked up.

SuChin Pak 

That you can’t enjoy this experience that there should be a halo around it. But either way you choose. Like I said, I believe that with all my heart that you whether you choose to have kids or not that your path to your own enlightenment and your own. All of that stuff comes to you. You don’t miss out on any of it either way.

Kulap Vilaysack  

Thank you. 2020 Fuck you. 2021 Let’s see, baby.

SuChin Pak 

Maybe fuck you, maybe not. Can’t tell.

Kulap Vilaysack  44:02

I mean, one thing that needs to be said is this podcast has been such a bright spot for me. And it’s something that I look forward to doing with you. And I enjoy the process so much. And to have this sort of creative output and constant conversation about things that I care about. And I’m interested in is a gift.

SuChin Pak 

Oh, we know that, that’s, you get to this point in life and you realize these kinds of opportunities where you get to have, like, you call this quote unquote, work. That’s like the Willy Wonka golden ticket.

Kulap Vilaysack 

That’s right.

SuChin Pak 

That’s it. I don’t disagree with you. I’m in complete agreement.

Kulap Vilaysack

So I mean, that’s the abundance manifested right there. This is this week’s show. This is our year. We’ll see you in the new.

CREDITS

ADD TO CART is a production of Lemonada Media. Our producer is Claire Jones and our editor is Ivan Kuraev. The music is by WASAHHBII and produced by LA Made It and Oh So Familiar with additional music by APM music. Executive producers are Kulap Vilaysack, SuChin Pak, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Wittels Wachs. Be sure to check out all the items we mentioned today on our Instagram at @AddToCartPod. Also please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe to this show wherever you get your podcast.